Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2009 January 6

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January 6

UN Deputy Secretary-General, pre-1997?

I've left a query on the Talk page for United Nations Deputy Secretary-General. An unsourced citation (elsewhere) cites that one Bogdan (or Bohdan) Lewandowski filled this position—or a similar one with a different title?—presumably during his tenure as Poland's Permanent Representative to the U.N. (1960-1966; dates culled from the Polish WP). I'd appreciate any help in confirming or otherwise clarifying (or refuting) this. -- Thanks, Deborahjay (talk) 10:05, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Good day to you! Seems that the information given in several different places indicates the Deputy Secretary-General is a new position. The United Nations Deputy Secretary-General page says the first person appointed to the post was Canada's Louise Fréchette. Before that, even the information on the UN's own website doesn't hint at it's existance. Operator873 (talk) 10:31, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

There are a number of under secretary generals at any given time covering various UN departments, and it seems Bohdan Lewandowski was one of these. There is a biography of him on this page (scroll down). Note that this is a different person from the Polish Wikipedia's Bogdan Lewandowski (b. 1946). --Cam (talk) 02:23, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Who wrote this?

Does anyone know who wrote this please?

"If there is a God, I don't think He would demand that anyone bow down or stand up to Him. I often have a suspicion that God is still trying to work things out and hasn't finished".

Many thanks--79.79.187.69 (talk) 11:07, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

FOUND IT NOW, Rebbeca West it was. --79.79.187.69 (talk) 11:10, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Resolved

First Play-writer

Can you tell me that who was the first play-writer in English Literature and from where did he/she belong? Also what was the name of his/her first play? many thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.103.70.227 (talk) 12:19, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Probably we don't know. See Medieval theatre. A named dramatist who may be a better answer than none is John Skelton (c. 1460–1529), who wrote three plays, including Magnificence. John Bale (1495–1563) wrote an early historical verse drama on King John and c. 1538 a morality play with the memorable title Three Laws of Nature, Moses and Christ, corrupted by the Sodomytes, Pharisees and Papystes most wicked. See also Everyman (play). Strawless ^(talk) 14:21, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Medieval quasi-allegorical morality plays are the earliest. Two famous ones which were from an era after morality plays and before the Elizabethan theatre boom, and that were intended for actual popular theatrical performance (as opposed to being a purely written literary exercise or an esoteric aristocratic Court entertainment), are Gammer Gurtons Needle and Ralph Roister Doister... AnonMoos (talk) 20:05, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

And in terms of "firsts", Ralph Roister Doister is pretty well established as the first English comedy, though it postdates Bale's dramas. - Nunh-huh 07:42, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Christianity vs languages of Pakistan

Which languages do the Pakistanis Christians speak? Urdu? Pashto? Punjabi? Sindhi? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.30.202.22 (talk) 14:53, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

There are very likely Christians speaking every one of those languages. Christianity is a missionary religion, and spreading the religion "to the ends of the earth" (Acts 1:8 for anyone looking) is a central component of being a Christian. Jesus himself issued the Great Commission to all christians; Matthew 28:19 "Go and make disciples of all nations." Why do I bring all of this up? Because within any sizable language group, you are likely to find Christians among them. There are active Christian missionaries working among some languages with only a few thousand speakers; in ANY language where the speakers number in the millions, which all of the ones you list do, you are likely to find a sizable number of Christians among them. Depending on the culture and laws of the local nation, those Christians may worship underground to an extent; but they are certainly some there. This page lists some interesting statistics about Bible versions. According to that page, at least some portion of the Christian bible has been translated into over 2200 languages. This page claims complete translations into over 2000 languages, and "countless" partial translations. Nearly every site I can find at this google search comes up with a number somewhere between 2000 and 2400. Why do I bring all of this up? Because it is quite likely that there are practicing Christians speaking just about any language that is spoken by more than 1 million people, and likely for any language spoken by more than a few tens of thousands of people. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 04:41, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Well, actually, I find out that this Jehovah's Witnesses'this one It shows that the languages of Pakistanis are Pashto, Sindhi, Punjabi and Urdu. 192.30.202.22 (talk) 21:10, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Anyway, we do have an article Christianity in Pakistan... AnonMoos (talk) 14:47, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Christians vs. languages of India

Which languages do speak Indian Christians speak? Hindi? Bengali? Tamil? Telugu? Malayalam? Kannada? Gujarati? Punjabi? Oriya? Assamese? Marathi? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.30.202.22 (talk) 14:57, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

There are at least a few Christians speaking each of these languages. Christians in India are not confined to a single ethnic group. Marco polo (talk) 17:31, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Well, actually, I find out that this Jehovah's Witnesses'this one It shows that the languages of Indians are Assamese, Bengali, Gujarati, Hindi, Kannada, Malayalam Marathi, Oriya, Punjabi and Tamil. 192.30.202.22 (talk) 21:17, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

And least we forget, Portuguese. Why? Goa was a Portuguese enclave in India until 1961 and the majority of Goans spoke Portuguese and a majority were Christians. Many also spoke pretty good English and of course Hindi and Marathi. I lived in Bombay, now Mumbai, in the late sixties and experienced their diaspora. I suppose by now fewer speak Portuguese.67.85.139.112 (talk) 00:46, 11 January 2009 (UTC)Sasquatch

Pakistani hindus

Which languages do Pakistani Hindus speak? Punjabi? Sindhi? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.30.202.22 (talk) 15:05, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Some speak Punjabi, some speak Sindhi, and some speak other dialects. Marco polo (talk) 17:32, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

According to your articles "Punjabi People", Sindhi People", "Hindkowans" and "Saraiki People", they all say, in their little facts box, they have Hindu followers. 192.30.202.22 (talk) 21:24, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Russian lit: Killing a man to see his soul

In a novel or short story or play by a Russian author, a character is a soldier in the Russian army. In a battle he overpowers his enemy, then deliberately murders the man because, as he later puts it, he wanted to see if man has a soul. This scene does not take place as "live action" but is reported, either by the soldier himself or by someone who heard it from him.

What literary work contains the scene and who was the author?--Goodmorningworld (talk) 16:30, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

You might be thinking of Frederick II, Holy Roman Emperor who was your original unfeeling scientist. Dmcq (talk) 19:27, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Nope, warn't him fer shur. But, thank you for pointing me to the delightful article on Frederick II, which I had not seen before. Confoundingly, that article is rated only C-Class, while others not half as good are Featured Articles – more proof of the inadequacy of Wikipedia's rating system.--Goodmorningworld (talk) 20:06, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

It's C-Class (or Start-class for those projects not keen on this new-fangled C-class) because it lacks inline citations necessary to make B-Class or above. There's no way of knowing whether the delightful facts/prose are indeed true or just made up. Gwinva (talk) 01:15, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

The Frederick II article doesn't describe the man in a cask experiment, it is described in Excerpt from the Chronicle of Salimbene on Frederick II which is referenced from the Salimbene di Adam article. I'll go and add it to the Frederick II one. Dmcq (talk) 07:00, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

By the way if you like Frederick you might like a more modern take on the same idea, see the references from the article on Gerry Nahum. Dmcq (talk) 08:07, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Crying Frenchman after Nazi victory

There's an iconic film of a Frenchman crying after the initial Nazi victory over France (or perhaps when Paris was occupied). He's standing up straight (I believe in a crowd) trying to keep composure although you can tell he's obviously very broken up inside. I've seen it dozens of times in various WWII documentaries. I was just wondering who this guy was and what his backstory was. 216.239.234.196 (talk) 20:16, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

I found a still of the film. It's the second picture on this page [1]. Does anyone know his name or anything about him? 216.239.234.196 (talk) 20:48, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

It appears to be an Associated Press photo. They include it among "some of its most famous photographs of World War II, as well as rarely seen pictures from its archives at [2]. The caption there says he is "standing among other residents of Marseilles" on February 19, 1941 "as he watches the flags of France's historic regiments depart into exile in North Africa." It is claimed by most other sites, including Wikipedia to be from the initial Nazi occupation of Paris, on June 14, 1940. Wikipedia also says, in Military history of France during World War II "A Frenchman weeps as German soldiers march into the French capital, Paris, on June 14, 1940. (This famous photograph is also said to have been taken as French troops were evacuating through Toulon.)." The source stated for the Wikipedia image is "Records of the Office of War Information, NARA." If AP owns the photo, they seem more credible. Most books at Google Book search say it is from the fall of Paris in 1940, but [3] says (p463)it is from Marseilles, February 1941, and credits Movietone News for permission. [4] credtid it to "NARA 535896" and says Paris 1940. My impression is it was really Marseilles 1941 and someone in the U.S. government got it wrong, because it tells a better story as the fall of Paris than perhaps an old soldier seeing his old unit's colors disgraced. When a print of it, made in 1948, sold at Sotheby's in 2002, they said " Frenchman weeping as French flags leave just ahead of Germans " which would correspond to Marseilles, but said it was originally photographed in 1940. A "circa 1960" UPI wire photo copy sold at auction in 2007 [5] said the photo was by "George Mejat" from 1940, taken in Marseilles, as the Nazis marched into the city, and that it was also a Fox Movietone newsreel. There is more discussion at Talk:Military history of France during World War II#Altering Caption of "Weeping Frenchman" Picture. Edison (talk) 21:10, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, I'm doing a Google search and I'm coming up with some of the same things, but I didn't find the Marseilles thing or the Wikipedia discussion. Thanks! Note that the woman next to him is clapping. To me, it seems more likely that she'd clap for departing French troops than invading Germans but who knows. As far as the Wikipedia discussion goes, I find the comment that "it still doesn't make sense that a crowd was anywhere in Paris" to be a bit off. Paris wasn't evacuted, so there should have been enough people around to form a crowd should they choose to. (Of course, if it were me, I'd stay home with the doors locked and the shades pulled down.) I wonder why none of the editors (apparently) didn't try asking someone on the French version of Wikipedia. One of the French editors might know. 216.239.234.196 (talk) 21:50, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

For some reason, I'm remembering this as a LIFE magazine image. --Moni3 (talk) 21:53, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

I have found the 1943 U.S propaganda film and compared the closest frame to the photo. The famous still is clearly from the movie. If it were a separate still photographer, he would have had to have his still camera lens less than 2 inches from the movie camera lens, given the geometry of the lines from the weeping Frenchman to the people behind him. The woman to weeping man's left is clapping. No one is giving a Nazi salute. It is not credible that this is a crowd welcoming/mourning the Nazis entry to Paris in 1940. It appears to be the French observing some French troops and their colors leaving France bound for North Africa, where French forces served after France fell. Vichy France under Petain were enthusiastic Nazi collaborators, but some of their forces in North Africa were more independent. When did the French troops/colors depart Marseilles/Toulon? What do the editors of French Wikipedia say about the man and the movie/photo? If it were from my hometown, living persons could identify the site, the occasion and many of the people. I expect no less from the French. My best guess: The "weeping Frenchman" was an army veteran and mourned the departure of the colors of his former unit, from Marseilles. Edison (talk) 06:14, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Late (but right) answer. This man is M. Jerôme Barzetti, photo in Marseille, La Canebière, at passage of flags of dismounted regiments, sent in Algeria, after collapse of France. Date: approximatively Feb.19, 1941, and published on 3.3.41 by Life' Magazine. (See: Marseille sous l'Occupation by Lucien Gaillard, Ouest France 1982, ISBN 2.85882.541.6, pp.12-13 - Lucien Gaillard writes "July 1940", p.11).

Sociology? Anthropology? or ?

Let's say I want to understand:

how is Japanese culture different from my culture?

and/or what are the core values of Thai culture? etc.

What branch of the humanities would this be? thanks, Sethie (talk) 21:31, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Ethnology / ethnography? Significant research was also done by anthropologists (eg Claude Levi-Strauss), cultural anthropologists (eg Margaret Mead) or linguists (Brothers Grimm). --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 21:53, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

I recommend Area Studies. DOR (HK) (talk) 02:20, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

You should be aware that classic-style cultural comparisons between national cultures (one of the most famous of which was Ruth Benedict's The Chrysanthemum and the Sword) have kind of been out favor in academia in recent times... AnonMoos (talk) 03:04, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Several reasons for this uneasy and politically correct avoidance are expressed in the opening section of Jared Diamond, Guns, Germs and Steel, 1997, which explores the fundamental environmental shaping of traditional cultures. --Wetman (talk) 19:18, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Wow! Thanks all! Sethie (talk) 21:13, 10 January 2009 (UTC)