Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2023 June 13

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June 13

A career in audio engineering

I am interested in pursuing a career in audio engineering in the future. I am only one year away from getting a Computing and IT BSc Honours Degree, and I am looking into future careers.

Essentially. I am looking to get an audio engineering job. I would like to be able to operate the mixing console in a recording studio. This could be for recording music, narration, voice acting lines, or even radio & television broadcasts. There is also the possibility of me doing it at a theatre, concert hall, arena, or even a school assembly hall.

So, I was wondering what qualifications I would need for this, and where I could get some leads? I would like to know who to apply to and where such jobs are advertised. I also hope that my Computing degree is enough, as University has been quite stressful for me, and I’d rather not start another course after finishing my current one. I also have passed maths and science exams at school.

If I do require more qualifications, then which ones would I need, and where would I get them? I am a self-taught musician mostly, though I did have piano lessons for a few weeks, back when I was at school. I am based in Scotland, so knowledge of how these things work in the UK would be required.

I am also interested in a few other jobs. Information for them would be very helpful at this time. They are:

• Sound effects designer
• TV & Video Game Soundtrack composer
• Composer of advertising jingles & children’s music
• Recording studio technician
• Song producer & DJ (I am particularly fond of this, as they seem to get paid a lot, and they work with interesting people)

I hope you can be of assistance in these matters. Thank you, Pablothepenguin (talk) 23:09, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

What will you do if they tell you there's a dress code? :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:14, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

I’ll comply with it. Pablothepenguin (talk) 01:10, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Copying your header to a search engine gets results that are probably better than responses from random Wikipedia volunteers. 136.54.99.98 (talk) 01:35, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

I am still eager to hear some answers. I’m not very good with internet search results. They are often not specific enough to my location, and I don’t know whether I should trust random websites that I am likely not familiar with. All I ask is that I be given ideas about what to do. Pablothepenguin (talk) 11:09, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

There are relatively very few recording studios. That makes the number of professional audio engineers relatively small. Therefore, it is a matter of identifying those who have the job and examining how they got the job. The few I know started by being in a band and, while recording, took a lot of interest in working with the audio engineer. Then, over time, they became audio engineers also. 12.116.29.106 (talk) 12:08, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

That’s useless to me, as I’m not in a band. Also, it’s not just recording studios. Audio engineers are also needed in live venues, such as concert arenas and theatres, so I would have thought that there would be no shortage of suitable venues. Also, how in the name of Christ do I get the chance to speak to a recording engineer? Pablothepenguin (talk) 12:52, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

In addition to this, my question about academic qualifications still hasn’t been answered. All I ask is that I find out what exams I need to pass and what training I need for the position. I don’t want to know about some random stranger’s band friends.

Can’t people see that I need damn leads!? I’m also eager to know what the hell I have to do to get the chance to design sound effects for video games, or even write some of the music for a children’s entertainment group at a holiday camp.

Why are people so naive is to forget the fundamental truth that I need to get a foot in the door? Can’t you people take the hint that I need you to get me in touch with sound engineers? When I posted this question, I expected you to find these people for me and recommend me to them for crying out loud. And yet, you’d rather take the lazy option and point me to a search engine? That won’t work, as I can’t get enough Scottish results that way. I don’t want to work in London and I certainly don’t want to relocated 3,000 miles for the sake of a bleeding job. Pablothepenguin (talk) 12:59, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

I'm sorry if we have disappointed you, but we're just volunteers and often have no specialist knowledge. The purpose of the Reference Desks is to find sources for editors writing Wikipedia articles. Although we are willing to help with other questions, we can only search the internet in the same way that you can. Alansplodge (talk) 13:22, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Actually, I think the Reference desk was set up as a service to our users supplementing the collection of Wikipedia articles; not all encyclopedic information was then (or is now) found on Wikipedia. Even if present somewhere, a user may not be able to find it, so (just like a library reference desk) our volunteers strive to help users find relevant information. An additional benefit, next to making Wikipedia more useful to its users, is that this may help to identify lacunae in our coverage.  --Lambiam 21:42, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

Sorry, Alan.

I’m just frustrated with the fact that I don’t know where to look for this most essential of information. That is what has made me so annoyed today.

Who the hell would know what I need to do, who is available to me? Surely there must be some avenue that the people who do have these jobs took themselves?

Can you give any idea whatever, on how to track these folks down and contact them with my queries? I just want to make a good impression on these folks, so that I can be hired by them. After all, how else would I even earn money? Where is the expertise, anyway?

And finally, can’t people see how desperate I am to get my talents known to the public? Why can’t I be the guy in the control booth at a rock concert? And, why the name of goodness can’t I be the guy who is in charge of the music at a seaside caravan park? Pablothepenguin (talk) 13:41, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Consider the possibility of on-the-job learning, acquiring the actual qualifications needed – as they become evident on the job – by a combination of self study and taking the good advice of expert colleagues. If you are strongly motivated, you might just apply to a studio that appeals to you, basically saying "I know I'm not fully qualified, but I am an eager learner and believe I can learn a lot from you galls and guys. Could we have a conversation?"  --Lambiam 13:51, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

But where do I find contact details for such studios? Where do I find experts? Pablothepenguin (talk) 14:05, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Does your University not have a Careers Advice office (which might be called something else)? The establishment teaching you relevant skills and awarding you formal qualifications ought to know how and where those skills and qualifications might be utilised.

Does your University's Library not subscribe to relevant professional journals and magazines which carry job advertisements?

Can none of your lecturers or tutors give you advice about these matters?

Does your University not host performances by professional bands whose road crews include audio engineers operating mixing desks? If approached correctly, some may be willing to give tips on getting into the business.

Have you attempted to learn practical skills and get a foot in the door by volunteering to roadie for local bands, whether Uni based or otherwise?

University is not just about acquiring technical knowledge; it's also about learning how to interact and 'network' with others in order to navigate society. The saying "It's not what you know, it's who you know" has considerable validity. Incidentally, I also attended a Scottish University (the oldest one). {The poster formerly known as 87.981.230.195} 46.65.228.117 (talk) 15:54, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Good stuff, but the trouble is that I use the Open University which is a distance learning facility. They do have a campus down in Milton Keynes, but I said before that I ain’t going to England for work. Also, I don’t have the right build to be a roadie, and I refuse to accept a non-paid volunteer position, especially one that involves manual labour, which I incidentally hate.

Perhaps, I will contact my University, but I’d also like advice that actually works for me. To put it simply, any job I get must be no further than an hour’s bus or train journey away from my residence. This effectively limits me to a limited area. I might consider an hour and a half if I am sufficiently desperate, but I’d prefer to avoid that.

Also, do you have any idea about how to convince the relevant agencies to use sound effects and songs I wrote and created in their games and programmes? I’m desperate to work for somebody cool. I could even write kids’ music for God’s sake! Pablothepenguin (talk) 16:11, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Moving to live near to a job is not unheard of (and is made easier by having recently gotten a job, landlords like that).  Card Zero  (talk) 16:36, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

I can’t do that. I am already in the process of moving to a new flat near my old house, and I will NOT move again. Pablothepenguin (talk) 16:42, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Or so you think. There's an old saying: "If you want to make God laugh, tell Him your plans!" ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:14, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

• I would dispute the statement (somewhere above) there are relatively few recording studios. I mean everything's relative but in any city (even small ones) they seem to me to be only slightly less common than hairdressers. I count 20 in Edinburgh, without looking very hard. You could just walk into some of them and have an awkward conversation with whatever oik is on reception. Maybe they have noticeboards with potential leads.
• I looked at job sites, and noted the absence of "sound engineer" or "audio engineer" as a job. There's plenty of "audio technician" jobs, which are different, and sound tediously unrelated to music and more like being an electrician.
• I note that there are degree-level courses in sound engineering, which supposedly come with careers advice. I wonder though whether these marry up to actual jobs, or whether the careers advice just amounts to "we think you're now equipped to find a job working in television or the games industry or something, good luck!"
• I toyed with suggesting you be a roadie, but maybe that's not for you. Also I don't know where you apply. It strikes me that a lot of these jobs are arranged informally. If some small venue or band needs somebody to sit behind the mixing desk, this is generally arranged by somebody saying "do you know Keith? He might want to do it" rather than putting out an advert anywhere. But there's a duality to the types of jobs you'd go for: there's these crappy informal ones to do with bands and people who've decided spontaneously that they're DJs, and all that sort of DIY attitude small entertainment venue stuff, and then there's the alleged jobs listed here (careers tab) at the University of the Highlands and Islands: Producing content for television, radio or online broadcast. Recording and creating sound effects for film. Working in computer gaming. Live production audio for concerts, conference, and theatre. Which is all more formal. But perhaps the way to find those is to apply specifically to each individual large institution that might have the jobs: the TV and radio stations, the game studios, the concert halls and theaters. They've got a lovely picture of a big mixing desk, but as you say it's hard to find where in the world the actual desks might be situated, so maybe the process is to guess about that and then make speculative approaches seeking advice.
• I also found Graduate Career Advantage Scotland. I don't know whether they're any good: their vacancy hub tab is password protected. In principle they can get you an internship somewhere with a mixing desk, but I don't know how many employers they actually have and what kind of dreary job they might actually try to shuffle you off into. Still, you could apply. They might well say you've applied too soon and you have to finish your degree and actually be a graduate first, and perhaps next year, but hey, you can find out what they say.

 Card Zero  (talk) 16:28, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Interesting stuff. I’m keen on finishing my degree and doing well. I’m heavily reluctant to start a new degree, due to academic stress, so how in the name of goodness do I convince an employer to overlook that? Also, is my Computing Degree enough for ANY musical job? Pablothepenguin (talk) 16:41, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

By showing motivation. The smaller and more informal a company is (no MBA managers and suchlike), the less likely they are inclined to attach much importance to formal qualifications not yet backed up by practical experience. I got the first job I really enjoyed by just ringing the doorbell of an interesting place I had read about and asking if they could give me a little excursion and exposition on what they were doing there. In the end they offered me a job, even though I had not even applied for one! They never asked for any formal qualifications (which I did not have, but at the time there were no state-of-the-art courses in what they were doing anyway). If you are serious about wanting to work at a cool place, you'll really have to do the research to find places that would, in your eyes, be cool to work at. If a respondent here can easily find 20 recording studios in Edinburgh, so can you, and then you can do diligent research on their coolness. Do you have work you can show that establishes your prowess, something like an auditory portfolio? If not, you should consider creating one.  --Lambiam 12:25, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

As soon as you mentioned an “auditory portfolio”, I realised that I need someone to teach me how to engineer and produce audio recordings. I also don’t possess the equipment or knowledge to make an auditory portfolio. So, what training is available for me to overcome these issues? Pablothepenguin (talk) 15:50, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

Music producers now use digital audio editing software. There are many free audio editors, such as Audacity and MusE. Demos on their use can be found on YouTube. If you are aiming at a professional level, you should also consider commercial software. Some advice on choosing can be found here. Are there producers whose work you like? Finneas reportedly uses Apple's Logic Pro (X). Hans Zimmer uses Pro Tools and Steinberg Cubase. All allow a free trial. If you need to use a synthesizer, Hans Zimmer's favourite is u-he's Zebra; a free baby sister is Zebralette.  --Lambiam 22:32, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

I’m more into producers from the 60s and 70s, by the way. I’m quite old fashioned with my tastes. Pablothepenguin (talk) 18:32, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

Except when it comes to orchestra dress codes? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 05:42, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

Pretty much. Pablothepenguin (talk) 00:48, 19 June 2023 (UTC)