Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2019 May 27

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May 27

Silent film stars with unattractive voices

The basic plot of Singing in the Rain is a film studio converting from silent films to talkies, the difficulties inherent therein, and the relationships among the principles. The studio's leading lady has an unattractive voice, and another woman's voice is dubbed on top of hers.

In real life, was this approach followed much at all? Sound film gives an example of someone whose career died because of an unattractive voice, Anny Ondra, and Sound film#Labor mentions others who suffered similarly, but all I could find regarding dubbing was related to poor recordings, e.g. there's a bad recording in a scene that was filmed well, so they just re-record the same actors in a sound booth. Google found me [1] and [2], but they're largely talking about dubbing for other languages, e.g. making an English picture in Spanish. I can't find anything on the idea of dubbing an attractive voice on top of a star's unattractive voice, aside from [3], which talks about Singing in the Rain but otherwise has just a couple of quick notes about The Jazz Singer and Blackmail. It would be interesting to see if there were other major motion pictures that used such a technique in the silent-to-sound transition era. Nyttend (talk) 00:05, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Not from the right era, but see Hercules in New York.--Jayron32 03:35, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Dubbing singing in movies was quite common (different actors for voice and songs) Even The Lion King did that. Often the singer got no credit. Marni Nixon sang for Anna in “The King and I,” Maria in “West Side Story”, Eliza Doolittle in “My Fair Lady", as Mary Poppins, Grandma Fa in Mulan, etc. Rmhermen (talk) 03:41, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

One point of fact: Marni sang in the Mary Poppins movie, but not as Mary Poppins. Julie had that covered. A relatively recent overdubbing of non-singing was Klinton Spillsbury in his Lone Ranger movie, where another actor overdubbed his lines. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 06:13, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

She apparently only sang the children's version of the soundtrack album. The article I read said she sang in movie in the song Jolly Holiday but was not clear that she was the voice of the geese, not Mary. Rmhermen (talk) 19:58, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

Sorry, but apparently I wasn't clear. In Singing in the Rain, Monumental Pictures concludes that their star can't function in the talkie era with her own voice, so they try to save her career by overdubbing her lines with the voice of another person and don't mention that it's not her voice. Beyond The Jazz Singer and Blackmail, were there any studios that tried to save the careers of good actors with unattractive voices by overdubbing with someone else and not mentioning that it was someone else's voice? Nyttend (talk) 11:00, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

In The Jazz Singer, was Bobby Gordon overdubbed because of an unattractive voice in general, or was it just that he couldn't sing very well? Audrey Hepburn could sing, her voice just didn't have the richness that the producers wanted. She did sing one of her own songs, "Just you wite, 'Enry 'Iggins…" while the others were done by Marni. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:26, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

When Jack Hawkins lost his voice due to surgery for cancer in 1966, he still made about 20 more movies with someone else's voice overdubbed. I seem to recall this was well known at the time, but I sort of doubt there would have been any acknowledgment made in the movies themselves. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 11:15, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Modern era sound film, James Earl Jones did the voice of Darth Vader in Star Wars, after George Lucas decided he didn't like David Prowse's voice. See: David Prowse#Star_Wars 67.164.113.165 (talk) 05:13, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

If you've ever heard Dave Prowse's undubbed version, it's easy to see why. Darth Vader with an English working-class accent is about as menacing as the Geico Gecko. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 09:56, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

David Prowse's accent isn't "working class:" it's an aspect of a regional dialect that, in itself, is not a class marker except insofar as he hasn't deliberately adopted RP. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.122.2.132 (talk) 13:18, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

Whatever it specifically is, menacing it ain't. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:20, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

No argument with that, but equating "West Country accent" with "working class" is an inaccurate stereotype that should not be encouraged, any more than suggesting that a New Jersey accent implies stupidity. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.122.2.132 (talk) 13:25, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

Who says that? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:37, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

Sir Francis Drake and Sir Walter Raleigh for a start.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 07:20, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

[Re New Jersey accent != stupidity] Possibly some people, possibly no-one: it's a hypothetical example. The point is that if someone did say it, they'd be wrong. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.122.2.132 (talk) 08:44, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

The relationship between social class and accent is a complex issue in the UK, though not nearly so defining as in the past; see Do accents still play a role in British class distinctions to the present day?. Alansplodge (talk) 21:12, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

Come now, folks. Let us not devolve into a remake of My Fair Lady.    → Michael J Ⓣ Ⓒ Ⓜ 02:52, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

Again, from much later in film history, Glenn Close's voice was dubbed over Andie MacDowell's in Greystoke: The Legend of Tarzan, Lord of the Apes as the inexperienced MacDowell's Southern accent was not deemed suitable for the character of Jane. There's a section about it in our article about the film. Turner Street (talk) 08:34, 31 May 2019 (UTC)