Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2019 July 4
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July 4 edit
Fly Me to the Moon edit
I remember the song Fly Me to the Moon has appeared in a movie of the 1990s. One scene was probably like they were driving around a circle while playing this song. What's the title of this movie? -- Toytoy (talk) 16:08, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
- This lists Wall Street and Space Cowboys though I suspect there are others. MarnetteD|Talk 17:36, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
- Once Around (1991) maybe? It's been a long time since I saw it, so I'm not certain about the circling bit, but IMDb says the song is in there. Clarityfiend (talk) 19:35, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
- The synopsis mentions "Renata's father directs the funeral procession through several rotations on a traffic round-about", which may have been accompanied by the song. (Probably why my subconscious dredged up this movie.) Clarityfiend (talk) 19:38, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
Yes! Once Around! Thank you all! -- Toytoy (talk) 00:13, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
Mangani language edit
I was reading the article Mangani and saw a section about the "ape language", which Burroughs developed. Now this whole "ape language" seems to be an enormous plot hole. Where could this language have come from? As far as I know, apes are incapable of human-like speech. JIP | Talk 21:59, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
- It's fiction. Burroughs can do whatever he wants in his Tarzan universe. Plus it makes things a little less implausible: How else is Tarzan going to learn to talk? Clarityfiend (talk) 09:09, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
- The 'apes' in question cannot be equated to any known living species. Burroughs was writing before a great deal of human and pre-human primate evolution was elucidated (to the extent it is): one can if one wishes assume these 'apes' to be a relict population of an otherwise extinct known, or as-yet-unknown, Hominin sufficiently close to Homo sapiens (also an ape) as to have developed a primitive language – after all, we are not at all sure when 'human' speech in our direct line first developed, and whether or not, and if so, to what extent, non-sapiens species such as Neanderthals and Denisovans (probably?), heidelbergensis (possibly?), erectus/ergaster (probably not?), habilis (most likely not?), floresiensis (maybe?) and naledi (surely not?) could talk either verbally and/or with gestures. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.185} 2.122.177.55 (talk) 18:01, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
- I enjoy pursuing rational explanations within fiction as much as the next guy, but the Mangani are pretty clearly MacGuffins to explain how Tarzan learned language, etc. Forget Denisovans; at the time the Tarzan stories were begun, gorillas were scarcely understood as non-fictional creatures themselves. The odd artifact got snuck out of Africa prior, but it wasn't until the 1920s that they really got any scientific scrutiny - and Tarzan stories had been published for nearly a decade by then. To say, in 1912, that you'd been raised by gorillas and they taught you to speak as well, wasn't as ludicrous sounding as it is today. Matt Deres (talk) 19:26, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
- I broadly agree, but although Burroughs knew of gorillas, and probably neanderthals and erectus ('Java man') to the limited extent they were known at the time (though not the other extinct species mentioned above), he explicitly differentiated the Mangani from gorillas (called 'Bolgani' by Tarzan and the other Mangani), so we are entitled to rationalise them as something else. Of course, Tarzan got much more than just language from the Mangani, having been raised as one of them. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.122.177.55 (talk) 15:31, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
- That's how you separate the Mans from the Bols. Clarityfiend (talk) 09:30, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
- I broadly agree, but although Burroughs knew of gorillas, and probably neanderthals and erectus ('Java man') to the limited extent they were known at the time (though not the other extinct species mentioned above), he explicitly differentiated the Mangani from gorillas (called 'Bolgani' by Tarzan and the other Mangani), so we are entitled to rationalise them as something else. Of course, Tarzan got much more than just language from the Mangani, having been raised as one of them. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.122.177.55 (talk) 15:31, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
- I enjoy pursuing rational explanations within fiction as much as the next guy, but the Mangani are pretty clearly MacGuffins to explain how Tarzan learned language, etc. Forget Denisovans; at the time the Tarzan stories were begun, gorillas were scarcely understood as non-fictional creatures themselves. The odd artifact got snuck out of Africa prior, but it wasn't until the 1920s that they really got any scientific scrutiny - and Tarzan stories had been published for nearly a decade by then. To say, in 1912, that you'd been raised by gorillas and they taught you to speak as well, wasn't as ludicrous sounding as it is today. Matt Deres (talk) 19:26, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
- The 'apes' in question cannot be equated to any known living species. Burroughs was writing before a great deal of human and pre-human primate evolution was elucidated (to the extent it is): one can if one wishes assume these 'apes' to be a relict population of an otherwise extinct known, or as-yet-unknown, Hominin sufficiently close to Homo sapiens (also an ape) as to have developed a primitive language – after all, we are not at all sure when 'human' speech in our direct line first developed, and whether or not, and if so, to what extent, non-sapiens species such as Neanderthals and Denisovans (probably?), heidelbergensis (possibly?), erectus/ergaster (probably not?), habilis (most likely not?), floresiensis (maybe?) and naledi (surely not?) could talk either verbally and/or with gestures. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.185} 2.122.177.55 (talk) 18:01, 5 July 2019 (UTC)