Wikipedia:Peer review/Nottingham Panthers/archive1

Nottingham Panthers

I've been working on this article for a couple of months now and would like any comments or feedback on how to improve it further. I'd like to get it to at least a GA standard. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Kim Williams 00:13, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

A mcmurray

First I gave it a quick once over But my initial thoughts include:

• Some of the lists could be seperated, it seemed like the article's end was very list heavy.
• Also, since this article is somewhat longer and pretty comprehensive you may want to consider going through with the Featured Article process as opposed to Good Article.
• Keep an eye out for POV, words like legendary, unfortunately and other modifiers which might imply a bias toward the team.
• Keep an eye out for phrases like "of course" and "clearly" and their like, they imply that something is completely certain and doesn't need citation or verification.
• Watch out for wording that makes it sound like the article was written by a fan (I know it's hard if you are a fan), but everytime it says someone dissapointed it implies POV. (ex: "ended eight years of hurt and misery")

Here is what I changed, added and removed, in my more in depth edit and review (any of it is, of course, changable, (if I made any detrimental mistakes which is always possible, anyway just trying to help out, I have an article up for review if you're interested):

• Removed a lot of the year links. They are distracting and shouldn't be used unless they provide definite context to the article. They would probably work better if they were linked to articles like 2003 in sports or even better something more ice hockey or region specific.
• Minor copy editing. Some tense agreement issues and other minimal issues. Some minor spelling issues.
• Removed confusing or awkwardly constructed sentences. This includes anything that seemed to contradict itself. Just check the history, I figured you could reword it.
• Added a few {{fact}} tags where I thought they were applicable.
• Removed some of the more "poetic" language.
• Removed some of the modifiers I thought might imply POV.
• Removed some extra language to avoid wordiness.
• Reworded some awkward structure and added missing words and/or letters.
• Removed what I percieved as colloquialisms.
• Split up some run-on sentences with semi-colons and periods.
• Other various copy editing tasks.

Hope that helps and thanks, I now know everything there is to know about the Nottingham Panthers. I didn't really go over the tabled or listed sections just the copy. I can look those over later if you think it might help. I added a comment (hidden) here and there, but probably should have added more. Make sure things are clear to a reader who knows nothing about British ice hockey.A mcmurray 08:06, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your suggestions I'll get working on them. Kim Williams 12:02, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Oldelpaso

Generally pretty good. Some points:

• Structurally, there is a good, comprehensive history section followed by several lists. The listiness could do with toning down and a couple of prose sections on things other than history added. A section on Stadiums would be beneficial, going into more detail about the NIC. Look at existing featured sports team articles such as New Jersey Devils or Arsenal F.C. for other ideas.
• The list of club records could be converted into prose as in Arsenal F.C.#Statistics and records.
• Everything mentioned in the lead should also be included at the appropriate places in the main body of the article.
• The infamous 0.2 goal could do with a ref.

Hope this helps. Oldelpaso 19:37, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestions Oldelpaso. I've converted the section regarding our retired numbers and Hall of Famers into prose and I'll see if I can do the same for the club records section. I'm not sure I have things in the right order now though. Any thoughts? I've also found a reference for that horrible horrible 0.2 moment. Kim Williams 22:03, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

APR _t

• Please see automated peer review suggestions here. Thanks, APR _t 20:36, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

• I feel bad about getting a subheading but only contributing one line ;), so:
• The web footnotes should probably have more citation information. I have run a script to convert some to Template:Cite web, though for WP:FA that probably won't be sufficient.
• See WP:MSH. Headings generally don't start with "The", and most of the capitalizations are unnecessary. For future reference, special characters like '&' shouldn't be used unless they are part of a proper noun, though I have already removed it and replaced it with an 'and'.
• I have a feeling that some commas would help here and there. largely from Winnipeg, Manitoba the Nottingham Panthers, a comma belongs after Manitoba. the Panthers struggled finishing bottom sounds a bit awkward (almost makes it sound that they were trying to achieve last place).
• Other sentences are winding and long and lack punctuation, making them a bit hard to read through. Consider breaking them up:

Success finally came in the 1950-51 season. After a fourth place finish in the Autumn Cup the Panthers won eighteen of their thirty games in the league and with the best goalscoring and defensive record Nottingham clinched their first league title by one point ahead of the Brighton Tigers.[6] A crucial injury to Zamick saw the Panthers fail to retain the title the following year but success returned in 1953-54 when, after finishing bottom of the Autumn Cup standings, the Panthers turned their season around and clinched a second league title by another single-point margin.

to, for example, (just broke it up, the grammar might not be right)

Success finally came in the 1950-51 season. After a fourth place finish in the Autumn Cup, the Panthers won eighteen of their thirty games in the league, clinching their first league title with one point ahead of the Brighton Tigers. They also had the best goalscoring and defensive record.[6] A crucial injury to Zamick caused the Panthers to fail to retain the title the following year. However, success returned in 1953-54 when, after finishing bottom of the Autumn Cup standings, the Panthers turned their season around and clinched a second league title by another single-point margin.

• Some minor mistakes that could be fixed w/ a quick spell check: arch rival is one word.
• Good luck, APR _t 21:45, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Many thanks for your suggestions (both your own and the automated ones), I'll sit down later this week and start working through them. Kim Williams 13:01, 11 February 2007 (UTC)