Mladen Stojanović edit
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This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because it is comprehensive on its subject and I want it to be copy-edited for smooth running, summary style, etc. (I'm not a native speaker of English). After that, I think it could be nominated for GA or FA status.
Thanks, Vladimir (talk) 16:28, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
- Done. The names of the ranks of the Yugoslav Partisans were mainly descriptive by May 1943, not like captain, colonel, etc. Vladimir (talk) 15:27, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
Comments by Peacemaker67 (send... over) 22:13, 19 November 2013 (UTC) Good effort so far:
- the description of Young Bosnia in the lead is not consistent with reliable sources that state it was a term used to refer to a wide range of student organisations. See Robert Donia's Sarajevo: A Biography.
- the idea that the Partisans under S controlled 2,500 sq km is not reliably sourced
- In general, more sources are needed.
- the article needs a thorough c/e for grammar, suggest GOCE.
- Thanks for the comments.
- As for Young Bosnia, I used a major work by Vladimir Dedijer. I don't have Donia's work. In the lede, YB is described as "a youth revolutionary movement whose goal was to destroy Austria-Hungary", which was, according to Dedijer, the common goal of all groups in this movement. Would it be better to describe it as "a youth revolutionary movement composed of a wide range of student organisations whose common goal was to destroy Austria-Hungary"? Though I'd prefer to keep it as short as possible.
- I don't believe that was their aim, perhaps getting A-H out of Bosnia, but destroy A-H seems far-fetched. I know they were students, but... Donia is available in Google Books preview, I suggest you have a look, he is very well respected on this topic, and he has the advantage of not being a former Partisan.
- By the end of 1941, most of the area of Kozara, covering about 2,500 square kilometres, was controlled by Stojanović's detachment. The "2,500 square kilometres" in this sentence refers to the whole area of Kozara, not to the territory controlled by the Partisans. The size of the area (2500 km2) and the fact that the Partisans controlled most of it, are sourced in the article. The term "most of it" is a bit imprecise, but there are no data on exactly how many square kilometres were controlled by the Kozara Partisans at that time. Their enemies were mostly restricted to the towns of the area (Prijedor, Gradiska, Dubica, Novi), though they (the enemies) could also move relative freely in most of the Lijevče Plain. The hilly and mountainous parts of the area were mostly controlled by the Partisans.
- It needs rewording then, at the moment it reads as if the Partisans controlled 2500 sq km.
- I used relevant sources that are available to me (currently 20). If that is not enough, then we'll have to wait until someone adds other sources. Stojanović is mentioned in English-language sources, but, as far as I know, not sufficiently to write a comprehensive biography.
- There are quite a few reasonable length paragraphs where the article relies on the memoirs of one or two former Partisans, this is what I am referring to.
- Yes, copy-editing by a native speaker would be welcome, for a smoother running of the text.
- I suggest you submit it for GOCE copy editing after it is done here. You won't necessarily get a copy edit here, although someone may do if the urge takes them.
- As for Young Bosnia, I used a major work by Vladimir Dedijer. I don't have Donia's work. In the lede, YB is described as "a youth revolutionary movement whose goal was to destroy Austria-Hungary", which was, according to Dedijer, the common goal of all groups in this movement. Would it be better to describe it as "a youth revolutionary movement composed of a wide range of student organisations whose common goal was to destroy Austria-Hungary"? Though I'd prefer to keep it as short as possible.
- Cheers, Vladimir (talk) 11:54, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
- I made some changes as you suggested. Regarding "quite a few reasonable length paragraphs where the article relies on the memoirs of one or two former Partisans", could you be somewhat more specific or provide an example of that? And is there something specifically controversial in those paragraphs, or you just object to the very fact that the paragraphs are sourced with works by former Partisans? Vladimir (talk) 19:10, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
- I think the article leans too heavily on what are essentially memoirs of senior Partisans, and in the case of Basic at least, Partisans that were close friends/colleagues of S. Some of whom were writing during Tito's reign when there were limitations and expectations on what could be published. I appreciate he is not a household name (except perhaps in Prijedor), but I am just flagging an issue that any reviewer at MILHIST ACR who is familiar with Yugoslavia in WWII will no doubt raise. Heavy reliance on Basic is an obvious one. Peacemaker67 (send... over) 21:34, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
- With all its shortcomings, Doktor Mladen by Rade Bašić is the only biographical book on Stojanović. Vladimir (talk) 13:17, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
- Sure, I understand, nevertheless I would suggest that background or contextual material (like the Young Bosnia example that has now been addressed using Donia) needs to be carefully sourced from non-Partisan academic texts where possible. I strongly suggest you ask GOCE to do a c/e before nominating for GA. Regards, Peacemaker67 (send... over) 19:30, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
- With all its shortcomings, Doktor Mladen by Rade Bašić is the only biographical book on Stojanović. Vladimir (talk) 13:17, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
- I think the article leans too heavily on what are essentially memoirs of senior Partisans, and in the case of Basic at least, Partisans that were close friends/colleagues of S. Some of whom were writing during Tito's reign when there were limitations and expectations on what could be published. I appreciate he is not a household name (except perhaps in Prijedor), but I am just flagging an issue that any reviewer at MILHIST ACR who is familiar with Yugoslavia in WWII will no doubt raise. Heavy reliance on Basic is an obvious one. Peacemaker67 (send... over) 21:34, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
- I made some changes as you suggested. Regarding "quite a few reasonable length paragraphs where the article relies on the memoirs of one or two former Partisans", could you be somewhat more specific or provide an example of that? And is there something specifically controversial in those paragraphs, or you just object to the very fact that the paragraphs are sourced with works by former Partisans? Vladimir (talk) 19:10, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
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- Consider adding more links to the article; per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (links) and Wikipedia:Build the web, create links to relevant articles.[?]
- Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (numbers), there should be a non-breaking space -
between a number and the unit of measurement. For example, instead of 800 metres, use 800 metres, which when you are editing the page, should look like: 800 metres.[?] - This article may need to undergo summary style, where a series of appropriate subpages are used. For example, if the article is United States, then an appropriate subpage would be History of the United States, such that a summary of the subpage exists on the mother article, while the subpage goes into more detail.[?]
- Please make the spelling of English words consistent with either American or British spelling, depending upon the subject of the article. Examples include: favourite (B) (American: favorite), metre (B) (American: meter), organize (A) (British: organise), recognize (A) (British: recognise), criticize (A) (British: criticise), criticise (B) (American: criticize), ization (A) (British: isation), analyse (B) (American: analyze), travelled (B) (American: traveled).
- Watch for redundancies that make the article too wordy instead of being crisp and concise. (You may wish to try Tony1's redundancy exercises.)
- Vague terms of size often are unnecessary and redundant - “some”, “a variety/number/majority of”, “several”, “a few”, “many”, “any”, and “all”. For example, “
Allpigs are pink, so we thought ofa number ofways to turn them green.”
- Vague terms of size often are unnecessary and redundant - “some”, “a variety/number/majority of”, “several”, “a few”, “many”, “any”, and “all”. For example, “
- Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that it exemplifies some of Wikipedia's best work. See also User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a.[?]
-(t) Josve05a (c) 23:47, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
Comment: Overall, a very good article with a lot of potential. I agree with Peacemaker that you ought to have GOCE give it a copy edit before taking any steps towards GAN, MILHIST A-Class Review or FAC. Regards, 23 editor (talk) 17:28, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
- One more thing: "...was a Bosnian Serb physician who led the Yugoslav Partisans in the area of Kozara, north-western Bosnia, at the beginning of World War II." While 1941 certainly was the beginning of the war for Yugoslavia, WWII itself began in September 1939. Therefore, it isn't correct to say "at the beginning of World War II." Please reword this. 23 editor (talk) 20:42, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
Comments: Just some copyediting notes. - Dank (push to talk)
- "In July 1914, Stojanović was arrested by the Austrian police and later sentenced": "Stojanović was arrested by the Austrian police in July 1914, and sentenced the following year"
- "He reportedly became a member of the Communist Party of Yugoslavia": "reportedly" isn't consistent with the text, which says that he did become a member.
- "who rose to arms, took control": no comma between subject and verb
- "arrived to": arrived in
- "the night between 31 March and 1 April": the night of 31 March
- "murdered": I think we're generally going with "killed". - Dank (push to talk) 04:15, 9 December 2013 (UTC)