Wikipedia:Peer review/List of Final Fantasy media/archive1
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This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because this former featured list was demoted almost 3 years ago but has improved dramatically since then (old FLR for easy reference). I've been working on it on and off and so have a few other editors and I think it's time to see if it's ready for FL again. Major concerns last time were about comprehensiveness (which I don't think is a problem anymore), questions about reliability of sources, and problems with the lead section. Also, I was wondering if anyone knows the policy/guideline on how comprehensive the referencing needs to be for release dates? Also, three sections (games, companion books, music) are written in summary style with their main lists on the linked pages and I was wondering if there were any objections to this arrangement.
Thanks, Axem Titanium (talk) 16:43, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
- Well, VGames at least was just way too long to be included; it's now a full long FL in its own right. I don't think I wrote that particular summary very well, though, and it needs references. --PresN 18:40, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
- "Film and Television" uses a different template than the other sections, and I think they should all be consistent (either way, I don't much care). --PresN 18:40, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
- I suggest the video games section should give a very brief version of List of Final Fantasy video games. Perhaps just a table of the 14 main games? The music section could follow a similar format of just featuring the primary soundtracks to the main games. No need to give excess detail when other pages already appropriately do so. Any thoughts? (Guyinblack25 talk 18:17, 22 June 2010 (UTC))
- I added bare bones tables of the main series games and their OSTs. In this case, do we still need the timeline? I could also probably trim the prose sections for VGs and music to just outline the fact that other games/soundtracks exist. Axem Titanium (talk) 10:28, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
- The timeline can go in my opinion. I would assume that barely any prose is needed. So please trim away. (Guyinblack25 talk 13:56, 23 June 2010 (UTC))
- Ok, trimmed VG section, will have to be more careful with the music section since it has references. Any opinion on the order of the sections? Right now the section order seems kind of arbitrary. Maybe alphabetical except with video games at the top? Or are there any more logical organization methods? Axem Titanium (talk) 15:09, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
- I don't know if this is better, but how about this:
- Video games
- Film and television
- Radio drama
- Soundtracks
- Companion books
- Novels and manga
- Also, I think "Music and soundtracks" can be shortened to just "Soundtracks". Maybe that will help in trimming the music section's prose. (Guyinblack25 talk 15:17, 23 June 2010 (UTC))
- I don't know if this is better, but how about this:
- Ok, trimmed VG section, will have to be more careful with the music section since it has references. Any opinion on the order of the sections? Right now the section order seems kind of arbitrary. Maybe alphabetical except with video games at the top? Or are there any more logical organization methods? Axem Titanium (talk) 15:09, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
- The timeline can go in my opinion. I would assume that barely any prose is needed. So please trim away. (Guyinblack25 talk 13:56, 23 June 2010 (UTC))
- I added bare bones tables of the main series games and their OSTs. In this case, do we still need the timeline? I could also probably trim the prose sections for VGs and music to just outline the fact that other games/soundtracks exist. Axem Titanium (talk) 10:28, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
- Ok, all done. Any other glaring flaws to note? Axem Titanium (talk) 09:36, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
- Three things:
- I'd say that the companion books need to list out the books. Though I release that would be a long list in and of itself...
- The video game entries seem rather sparse. Maybe include a bullet point for each one about the plot?
- The headers for the soundtracks table looks weird. "Japan", "Length", and "Label" are all under "Original release date", but only Japan fits under that.
- That's all that comes to mind. It's really starting to shape up. FL looks to be in reach again. (Guyinblack25 talk 14:15, 24 June 2010 (UTC))
- I returned the soundtrack table to its previous format. I was just testing to see what that looked like. I hesitate to add any more to the video game table because that's why we split out the video games in the first place. Looking at the KH media page, it looks like both lists feature similar types of content (ex, release platforms, presence of international versions, etc.). For the companion books entry, there are two options. We could either merge all of Ultimania into this page or we could leave it mostly like it is. I don't see an easy middle ground to take. Axem Titanium (talk) 16:40, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
- I don't know if List of Kingdom Hearts media is a good example to follow to the letter. It's been a while since it was promoted, and I think it needs some fine tuning and updating.
- The problem with the subsection is that it's labeled "Companion books". Such a heading implies North American strategy guides as well as Ultimania books. This may sound silly, but what about List of Final Fantasy companion books? Don't know if it would pass notability standards though... (Guyinblack25 talk 20:41, 28 June 2010 (UTC))
- That's true, but since this is a list of FF media, it might be ok to just include those published by SE (ie, just Ultimania). As for a separate list, I don't know if that would fly... (see List of Prima Games guides, for ex). Axem Titanium (talk) 09:11, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
- Seems like a grey area to me. If the section will only be for Ultimania, then it should be renamed. Otherwise it should definitely include every companion book. (Guyinblack25 talk 17:12, 29 June 2010 (UTC))
- Ok, Ultimania it is. Axem Titanium (talk) 17:21, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
- The article is wrong in saying "Starting with Final Fantasy III'. The guides for FFIII to VI were not Ultimania guides and were not published by Square but NTT Publishing (see an incomplete list here: [1]). They did serve the same function as the Ultimania though (invaluable canonical information, developer's interviews, stuff that were cut from the games, etc.). So should we list them? I don't know. :s I'm just saying my two cents. Jonathan Hardin' (talk) 17:59, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
- I wouldn't say it's wrong to say that "Starting with Final Fantasy III, Square began publishing guide books" because I don't think the difference between Square directly publishing the guides and Square authorizing the guides to be published by NTT to be a useful distinction. I could make that more clear, but I don't think it's a relevant tidbit. Either way they shouldn't be listed since none of the Ultimanias are listed (at the moment), but the fact that guide books for III to VI exist should be mentioned, as the list does currently. Axem Titanium (talk) 09:24, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
- The article is wrong in saying "Starting with Final Fantasy III'. The guides for FFIII to VI were not Ultimania guides and were not published by Square but NTT Publishing (see an incomplete list here: [1]). They did serve the same function as the Ultimania though (invaluable canonical information, developer's interviews, stuff that were cut from the games, etc.). So should we list them? I don't know. :s I'm just saying my two cents. Jonathan Hardin' (talk) 17:59, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
- Ok, Ultimania it is. Axem Titanium (talk) 17:21, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
- Seems like a grey area to me. If the section will only be for Ultimania, then it should be renamed. Otherwise it should definitely include every companion book. (Guyinblack25 talk 17:12, 29 June 2010 (UTC))
- That's true, but since this is a list of FF media, it might be ok to just include those published by SE (ie, just Ultimania). As for a separate list, I don't know if that would fly... (see List of Prima Games guides, for ex). Axem Titanium (talk) 09:11, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
- I returned the soundtrack table to its previous format. I was just testing to see what that looked like. I hesitate to add any more to the video game table because that's why we split out the video games in the first place. Looking at the KH media page, it looks like both lists feature similar types of content (ex, release platforms, presence of international versions, etc.). For the companion books entry, there are two options. We could either merge all of Ultimania into this page or we could leave it mostly like it is. I don't see an easy middle ground to take. Axem Titanium (talk) 16:40, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
- Three things:
- The novella section needs more refs. I'm not sure Musei Renu Haito, Tōbae wa Onore Mazu exists. Jonathan Hardin' (talk) 17:24, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
- Sourcing for the more obscure Japanese only media is hard to come by. Regardless, primary sources can suffice for the existence of an item. Of course, more wouldn't hurt, but I think what's there is good for a non-contentious piece of information. (Guyinblack25 talk 20:41, 28 June 2010 (UTC))
- I mean I'm literally not convinced it exists. I can't find any reference to it on Google. How do we know the person who inserted that in the article was not pulling a prank or vandalizing, Jonathan Hardin' (talk) 17:59, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
- The citation listed to Square's Ultimania site makes reference to "newly written novels [by] Benny Matsuyama [FFXII 』Gaiden" (according to Google Translate). If that's not good enough, I'll comment it out until a better source can be found (or translated? ^_^). Just don't go making trouble about comprehensiveness -_-. Axem Titanium (talk) 09:24, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
- I mean I'm literally not convinced it exists. I can't find any reference to it on Google. How do we know the person who inserted that in the article was not pulling a prank or vandalizing, Jonathan Hardin' (talk) 17:59, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
- Sourcing for the more obscure Japanese only media is hard to come by. Regardless, primary sources can suffice for the existence of an item. Of course, more wouldn't hurt, but I think what's there is good for a non-contentious piece of information. (Guyinblack25 talk 20:41, 28 June 2010 (UTC))
- Any other suggestions from anyone? I feel almost ready to take this to FLC. Axem Titanium (talk) 09:42, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
- I've closed this peer review to nominate for FLC here. Please direct any further concerns there. Thanks, Axem Titanium (talk) 09:37, 5 July 2010 (UTC)