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Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/Freedom from Want (painting)/1

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Freedom from Want (painting) edit

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch • Watch article reassessment page • Most recent review
Result: Closed as no consensus for promotion. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 09:43, 19 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This article was just failed at WP:GAN although I believe that most will feel it meets WP:WIAGA in its current state.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 06:33, 12 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Just as I feel most will agree that it doesn't. But Hey....let us do what we must! I am an artist and an enthusiast of Rockwell. If you don't like my review...then re-nominate it. Right now...you have ignored far too much that I have pointed out to list this as GA. I will watchlist this discussion. Thanks.--Mark Miller (talk) 08:34, 12 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I haven't gone through it point-by-point, but first of all, I think it could be a wonderful Good Article. It would be good to follow Mark's recommendation and go through each of the assessment items and ensure that they are met. What first caught my eye was that there were bits that were not cited, there needs to be a bit of copy editing (perhaps tightening up the lead, or is that just me?), and there's a mixture of short and long citations. Since most are long citations, it would make sense to make them all long citations and not have a bibliography or sources section (I don't remember what it's called in this case)... and there are a couple of citation error messages, but I set my preferences to see them, so maybe you don't. I'll look at that. I hope you keep hanging in! It would be great to have this made good article.--CaroleHenson (talk) 22:09, 14 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The point of a GAR like this is that a point-by-point analysis is required. He thinks he has found valid violations of WP:WIAGA and I think he is misinterpretting some things. E.g., we have gone back and forth on the necessity of a 10-point NFCC FUR. He contests museum description pages as valid WP:RS. Also, we disagree on whether the essay is overweighted in this article to the point of failing GA. A nominator can not request a 2nd opinion during a review. GAR is the proper recourse. So here we are. You need to render an opinion on whether he has identified proper points of failure. That is the issue here.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 00:25, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I made some copy edits to the intro, fixed the short/long citation issue and tagged one citation - Encarta as needing a better source, and added a few cn tags. I think going through each of the items point-by-point is still a good effort. For instance, under "Well written" copyright / close paraphrasing concerns are identified. It's nice that the sentences are not all together now, but some of the sentences seem to be the same language and in the same order as the source.--CaroleHenson (talk) 01:44, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Is there anything else like this that can be tweaked or resolved from the previous assessment?--CaroleHenson (talk) 01:44, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
For instance, it seemed to me from what I read that you said the 10-point review of the NFCC FUR was fine, at least that's the impression I got from reading that section. I guess I'm not seeing a concern with the use of a museum's description pages, but I'll look at that a bit. Regarding the essay, is there a way to copy edit it so that the reader gets the salient points with fewer words? And, are there some other things that came up during the review that would be good to look over?--CaroleHenson (talk) 01:57, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I have never supported a 10-point FUR. As I stated, many of the 10 NFCC issues don't need specific mention in the FUR. I think it is unnecessary and overkill. I have never seen a 10-point FUR.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:02, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I looked at the part about "He contests museum description pages as valid WP:RS" and I don't think that adequately stated his position. I basically agree with him, although I think that something written about the essay could be more than 2-3 sentences... it would seem to me that 5-6 sentences should be able to get to the salient points. Right now, it's a bit difficult for me to understand the intention of the essay section. If nothing else, it would seem to me that since there is a tie in that Rockwell's painting did accompany the essay, the content should probably be focused, then, on just that... what were the key points from the essay. That's my take.--CaroleHenson (talk) 02:14, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Please explain his/your position on the reliability of a museum description page as a RS.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:09, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

[edit conflict]

I don't consider the museum's information unreliable. I think of it in terms of how they are inter-related and how much does it further the story of Rockwell's painting. There's nothing that suggests to me (including "The Norman Rockwell Museum describes it as a story illustration for The Saturday Evening Post, making the essay and this painting complementary works.") that Rockwell created "Freedom from Want" as an illustration specifically made for that essay, if he had, I'm guessing it wouldn't look as it does. It seems to me that the magazine wanted to have a good Thanksgiving issue... got a great "hook" to select someone people wouldn't ordinarily expect to write the essay... and had Rockwell, who regularly made paintings for them, create Freedom from Want and paired them together in the magazine. Even if that wasn't the case, the article is about the painting, not about the essay. If the essay and author are strong enough to stand on their own, perhaps there's a new article there. It may not be as large as you'd usually write (i.e., GA/FA status), but one that would be interesting and could be linked to from this article.--CaroleHenson (talk) 04:54, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

CaroleHenson, you have made a ton of stylistic changes to the citations which run counter to the formats that were approved in my prior three Category:FA-Class visual arts articles that I got promoted in the last 13 months. I am not sure why you don't want the books to be listed separately with short author page citations for specific citations.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:51, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure that I'd constitute making "short citations" into "long citations" as a ton of stylistic changes. In the past I've run into an issue on VA articles where there was a mixture... and I needed to choose one way or another. If you want to go back to the bibliography style go for it. You'll notice that I didn't recommend that for the Four Freedom's article, nor attempt changes there... and that was because 1) there was consistency in approach for use of short citations for books and 2) there were multiple uses of the same book, which is when a bibliography section makes sense. If you think it's right to have them the other way, put them back.--CaroleHenson (talk) 05:01, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I have faith and confidence that CaroleHenson is on this with the correct reassessment but Tony really has to let go of his POV (which may be very slight, but still) and see that there are real concerns here about undue weight and a mischaracterization of the museum page reference. as well as other recommendations. I don't think he was looking for a rubber stamp, but I do get the feeling he may not have encountered this sort of review before just from his reaction thus far. I suggest this be closed as not meeting GA at this time unless the major changes suggested are made and kept by Tony. This article is very much one that could be a GA article but I sense a little more than slight resistance to the needed changes.--Mark Miller (talk) 10:35, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I respectfully changed the link to my page from a template to the traditional brackets and very much agree with Mark.--CaroleHenson (talk) 13:45, 15 January 2014 (UTC) + struck out "Thanksgiving" from my response above.--CaroleHenson (talk) 14:05, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Carol, you seem to be misunderstanding your role here. This is review is an assessment of the state of the article at the time of the original review decision, the reasoning for that decision and WP:WIAGA. You need to clearly state why the article should have been failed or passed based on the elements of dispute between the reviewer and the nominator. When you say "There's nothing that suggests...that Rockwell created "Freedom from Want" as an illustration specifically made for that essay" you should evaluate text like "Hibbs alleviated Rockwell's concern that his work did not match Bulosan's text." Saying that the museum description, which states it was an illustration, is not unreliable but saying you don't consider it an illustration is WP:OR. You need to present RS that outweigh the museum and say why you support Mark Miller's claim based on such RS otherwise it seem you should point to the RS that you say is reliable (in double negative form as not unreliable). The same with the other points. You need to state why a 10-point FUR is required. That is what this review is about.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 16:15, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

My point was: before there's a thorough assessment there's a couple of things to take a look at from the prior assessment. It's a lot of work to go through and complete an assessment and to not have tackled the issues raised and gloss over them is an issue. I thought I was pretty clear about what they are, but sure, I will summarize the items:
  1. The copyright issues brought up in the initial assessment do not seem to have been completely addressed. For instance, under "Well written" copyright / close paraphrasing concerns are identified. It's nice that the sentences are not all together now, but some of the sentences seem to be the same language and the words are in the same order as the source. (See the prior assessment)
  2. There's a mixture of short and long citations. Since most are long citations, it would make sense to make them all long citations and not have a bibliography or sources section
  3. The cited text for Encarta needs a better source
  4. Even though the essay and painting have been deemed by the museum to be "complementary works," the article is about the painting, not about the essay. There are a couple of options: 1) rewrite the section to focus upon the points being made by the essay in a few sentences 2-5 and/or 2) consider starting an article about the essay author and/or essay, if it passes notability.
  5. Address what else needs to be resolved from the prior assessment before moving on to this assessment.
  6. From the last points made in the "Criteria" section of the previous assessment:
  • But since they are a part are what does need to be checked against to comply to the "Media specific" policy and "previous publication" I like to add them, specially when I add them in a review.--Mark Miller (talk) 01:56, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
  • I kinda have to in that situation, but I figured someone might see the message and If not, I would have done the work. I don't have an issue with that.--Mark Miller (talk) 08:12, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
I think it's asking a lot of someone to go through the entire assessment until you've tackled items from the initial assessment. That's what I was trying to say (I had hoped, politely).
I agree with Mark's comment: "I suggest this be closed as not meeting GA at this time unless the major changes suggested are made and kept by Tony. This article is very much one that could be a GA article but I sense a little more than slight resistance to the needed changes."--CaroleHenson (talk) 18:27, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • I am not understanding this list. The copyright issue in the review was about images and you are talking about text. I don't even recall a debate about short and long citations. The original assessment made no comment about reliable source issues. What are you talking about.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:09, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • It would help if you looked at the prior review.
      • Regarding copyright/closeparaphrasing: Talk:Freedom from Want (painting)/GA1#Well-written
      • We have talked about long/short citations - If you do a find (Control-F) on "short" - you can find each of the places.
      • I added the point about Encarta (Control-F) on "Encarta".
    • I am beginning to run out of energy for this. I am very happy to have summarized the items for you. The real question is: Do you want to work on resolving the issues? If not, I am with Mark, let's close this out until the issues are resolved.--CaroleHenson (talk) 21:26, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The section you are sending me to regarding copyright/closeparaphrasing says "the prose is clear and concise, respects copyright laws, and the spelling and grammar are correct" What corrections do you think I am suppose to make to address this?--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:50, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Are you talking about (Control-F) on "short" in this discussion or the one that is at issue?--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:50, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see the word Encarta at the discussion at issue although I will seek to find a better reference.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:50, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'm gobsmacked and done. To clarify

  1. The Control-F on "short" is for this talk page... it's the conversation we had. I wasn't part of the initial review. I had thought that would be clear... when I said our conversation. So, just look for the instances of "short" citation. Same for Encarta. I bolded them so they are now even easier to find.
    1. Handled.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:49, 16 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Regarding the copyright, I copied over exactly the information that was posted. I put the initial bit that just says what the criteria in <<no wiki>> so you could see that "the prose is clear and concise, respects copyright laws, and the spelling and grammar are correct" is the criteria that was being used to judge and formulate the following comments...
copied comments from review

<ol STYLE="list-style-type: lower-alpha"> <li>{{Wikipedia:Good article criteria/GAC|1a}}; and</li> There were some clarity issues in the lead that I attempted to address so no need to go over what was accepted. The remaining portion of te lead needs some work.

  • In the lead we have this portion:
"Freedom from Want was published in the March 6, 1943, issue of The Saturday Evening Post with a corresponding essay by Carlos Bulosan as part of the Four Freedoms series.[2] The painting was included as the cover image of the 1946 book Norman Rockwell, Illustrator, written when Rockwell was "at the height of his fame as America's most popular illustrator."[3] Although the image was popular in the United States it caused resentment in Europe where the masses were enduring hardship at the time. Drawing comparisons to John Steinbeck, Bulosan's essay spoke on behalf of those enduring the socioeconomic hardships domestically rather than those enduring sociopolitical hardships abroad, and it thrust him into prominence."
The Bulosan material needs to stay together tightly in the lead as it has context and relevance, however it should not bookend other content or given undue connection or weight to the subject or the article.

"Freedom from Want was published in the March 6, 1943, issue of The Saturday Evening Post as part of the Four Freedoms series.[2] The issue included a corresponding essay by novelist and poet, Carlos Bulosan of the same title, considered one of the authors most notable works. The painting was included as the cover image of the 1946 book Norman Rockwell, Illustrator, written when Rockwell was "at the height of his fame as America's most popular illustrator."[3] Although the image was popular in the United States it caused resentment in Europe where the masses were enduring hardship at the time.

  • it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.[1]
    • I have no idea why you are bringing this up. This content has not been in the WP:LEAD for some time. It was edited long before this article was failed.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 06:01, 16 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

    I am unwatching this page and my name being used won't return me to this page.--CaroleHenson (talk) 22:13, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

    Sorry you have jumped ship, but you seem to have generally pointed to things in the prior discussion that are not actually things that needed editorial attention. If I am understanding your issues above they were the following:
    1. Attend to a close paraphrasing issue which was neither pointed to in the original discussion nor presented actionably here.
    2. Pointed out a ref improve wish and three citations needed that were not in the original discussion
    3. Corrected a long/short citation issue even you admitted was a matter of preference and not at issue in the prior discussion that you would not mind if I reverted.
    4. Stated that the museum description page is not unreliable, failed to present alternate sources to contradict it and somehow come out on the side that the reliable source is wrong or something. I just don't understand your point here, especially given the corroborating facts.
    5. Concurred that the essay content should be reduced (which was an issue of the prior discussion).
    6. It is unclear to me whether you said you think the 10-point FUR should be required.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 06:22, 16 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

    Just a placeholder, since I'm not in a position right now to coherently discuss the Bulosan essay inclusion. Hopefully within a few days. Novickas (talk) 18:20, 16 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

    • FYI, Novickas is the person who suggested expanding the essay content.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:34, 16 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
      • OK, now they can explain to us why your hesitance is appropriate to keep this open. I await that with absolute pleasure.--Mark Miller (talk) 05:56, 17 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
        • I don't understand what you are saying, although I am fairly certain it is not very collegial.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 16:40, 17 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
          • Not everyone takes your tact here Tony. You have been the less collegial and very much unable to collaborate here. But if you truly did not understand I guess I should explain it for you. You attempted to explain who another editor was in regards to this article and I was stating that it was my hope that they could also explain your hesitance to simply take the suggestions from two separate editors and still try to keep the reassessment open when you have not listened to the editors concerns. Over explanation of what others have already disagreed with is not working in good faith. It is simply not hearing others. There are other concerns now from a third editor over the clariy of the writing and I agree with those comments as well. Simply put, this isn't a GA article. Sorry.--Mark Miller (talk) 07:23, 19 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
            • I believe you have misread the third editor, Novickas. He has said this GAR is unclear and not the article, if I am correct. He said the GA discussion was hard to follow and needed more structure not that the article did.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 07:41, 19 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

    The GA discussions have gotten, for me, kind of hard to follow – it’d be nice if the critiques and replies were more structured, or summarized below – it would help the next reviewer.

    IMO the accompanying Carlos Bulosan essay deserves a section in this article, because it has been covered, in depth, in many reliable sources, and discussed in terms of its juxtaposition with the painting. It’s encyclopedic information that I don’t think should be moved elsewhere. Including analysis of an accompanying text is, I know, a somewhat unusual situation for a painting article – but Rockwell did describe himself as an illustrator in his autobiography. [1]. The WP Illustrator article currently reads “An illustrator is an artist who specializes in enhancing writing or elucidating concepts by providing a visual representation that corresponds to the content of the associated text or idea.” This painting illustrated two texts, two concepts – primarily Roosevelt’s speech, but also Bulosan's essay. The Post selected the essays, including Bulosan’s, before the paintings were finished, and there is sourced commentary about Rockwell’s take on B.’s essay. And creating a stand-alone article about the essay using the image, or putting it in the Bulosan article, would stretch the limits of the image’s fair usage.

    This has happened before and will happen again – there are more viewable Google book results about the painting than there were just a few weeks ago. Scholars now see his works as an acceptable subject. I’ll mention them, along with a few other suggestions, at the article’s talk page. Novickas (talk) 23:51, 17 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

    There has been no reliable source that states the Rockwell painting is or was ever intended as an illustration of the Bulson essay. The essay is far from the idealized depiction of Rockwell's "American ideal" at that time. Simply saying that Rockwell is known for illustration is simply not enough for me to support this text remaining in the article with such undue weight. Two editors have made their review, now please justify the claims being made or find a way to stop avoiding two editor reviews. We need a clear and unambiguous claim that the painting was an illustration of the essay that is as far from that painting as one can get. As for now, if even Novickas is returning to the talk page for discussion I find this community reassessment to have failed. The article in it's current state is simply not GA.--Mark Miller (talk) 03:35, 19 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    The only claim is that the painting is an illustration of the same theme as the essay (as stated in the article).--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:54, 19 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    Then it is indeed undue weight to give a biography of Bulson on this page. Yes, of course a few lines, 2 to 3 maybe even 4 or 5 (if the information stays on topic, focused and does not give undue weight to information not needed on the article), but we do not need an entire section devoted to the essay on the Rockwell Painting article.--Mark Miller (talk) 07:17, 19 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    But there are multiple reliable sources describing the paintings as illustrations of the essays. The Norman Rockwell Museum [2] ("Story illustration for “The Saturday Evening Post"). From ‘’Dictionary of World Biography’’, Routlege, Rockwell’s entry: “The paintings were published as Freedom of Speech (February 24, 1943), [the other three],…to illustrate essays on these topics.” [3] From the ‘’Heath Anthology of American Literature’’, Cengage, (snippet only): “The Saturday Evening Post paid nearly a thousand dollars for Bulosan's essay “Freedom From Want" (an essay which was illustrated by Norman Rockwell and displayed in the Federal Building in San Francisco)…” [4]. From ‘’The Continuum Library of American Literature’’: “Freedom from Want (1943), an essay published in the Saturday Evening Post and illustrated by Norman Rockwell…” [5]. From ‘’Distinguished Asian Americans”, Greenwood Publishing Group: “The four essays were published in the Saturday Evening Post along with illustrations by Norman Rockwell.” [6]. From ‘’Common Destiny: Filipino American Generations’’, Rowman & Littlefield: “In 1943, when the war had finally lifted the United States out of the Depression, the Saturday Evening Post published articles on the Four Freedoms…and ran them in a special issue with Norman Rockwell illustrations.” [7].
    Now, I realize that this way of framing the essays-paintings relationship is less prevalent than the ‘accompanied’ construct, and have no problem with using accompanied in the article. But it’s a significant minority viewpoint and since the essay has the same title, was printed alongside the painting, and has had so much coverage, I still think it belongs here. And I don't think a short recap of Bulosan's background is off-topic, because the sources Tony used discuss his life story in the context of the essay. Novickas (talk) 19:52, 19 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

    No, those references are not impressing me and do not state everything as clearly as you state here. I do not believe they support your claim. In fact I think you are pushing things way too much. Sorry. I don't see those references as supporting that claim or the undue weight of the mention.--Mark Miller (talk) 01:48, 20 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

    If it would help, I would be happy to summarize the issues clearly in a Template:GAList so that at the end of the conversation, at least, there's clarity about the issues - it would be a shame if this article isn't resolved to go to GA status.--CaroleHenson (talk) 03:05, 22 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    This discussion is not about anyone's assessment of the current article. It is a debate about the failed version and the GAList for the GAN discussion at that time.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:47, 22 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    Because I see this went to GAR, the point from the start was that issues from the initial assessment were not addressed and a few other issues were identified, which are in my listed items 1-6 above at 18:27, 15 January 2014 (UTC).--CaroleHenson (talk) 15:57, 31 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    Summary

    I have been told by parties such as Cirt and Wehwalt who have participated in Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Four Freedoms (Norman Rockwell)/archive2 that this debate has gotten WP:TLDR and that the back and forth has gotten hard to follow. I have been told to try to summarize what is at issue. This is a GAR regarding Talk:Freedom from Want (painting)/GA1 which resulted in a failed nominee. I am contesting the fail because I feel this version of the article at the time it was failed met WP:WIAGA. Thus the result of the fail should be overturned and this should be listed as a GA.

    It is my understanding that this article was failed over the following disagreements between the nominator (TonyTheTiger) and the reviewer (Mark Miller):

    1. Whether the Fair use rationale on File:Freedom From Want.jpg is sufficient. (reviewer beleives a 10-point FUR that responds to each WP:NFCC element is necessary and nominator feels the FUR was sufficient when it looked like this). Although this was a contentious issue, it was moot at the time the article was failed because the reviewer revised the FUR to reflect his belief before failing the article.
    2. There was extensive debate regarding whether the Norman Rockwell Museum's description page is valid WP:RS for the painting. The debate over whether this painting is an illustration of the accompanying essay or an independent work continues to be contentious.
    3. There is ongoing debate on whether there was excessive content regarding the accompanying essay in the version that was failed.

    The article was failed on January 12. The above were the issues of contention at the time. After the fact comments were made at the original GA1 regarding poor prose but this was not a contentious issue at the time the article was failed although a full week after closing the review the reviewer commented that he agreed. After the fact, several issues have been raised by CaroleHenson that were not part of the original disagreement. She claims close paraphrasing was an issue. She says citations formatting was an issue. She believes that one of the sources (Encarta) was not a WP:RS.

    It is my understanding this type of GAR is an assessment of the whether the issues raised at the time the article was originally failed were proper. My summary is stated above as succinctly as possible. Please review the version of the article that was failed and assess whether you think it should have been failed and whether the reviewer stated valid reasons. HTH.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:36, 8 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

    No, this GA was failed because it did not meet GA standards and there was little movement to correct issues, period. It was NOT failed (not listed as GA) because of any "disagreements".--Mark Miller (talk) 04:41, 8 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    That being said, it is up to GAR discussants to look at WP:WIAGA and the version of the article that was failed and determine if failure was correct.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:51, 8 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    What? No. See WP:GAR. GAR is "used to determine whether articles that are listed as good articles still merit their good article (GA) status." Failed GANs go back to GAN after the issues raised in the GAN are addressed, which you appear to have not done. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 16:48, 8 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    The ed17, I don't see your quote in the rules. I think you are referring to " it is rarely helpful to request a community reassessment for an article which has not had a proper review; it is usually simpler to renominate it", but I am not saying it did not have a proper review (where I interpret proper review to mean opposite of quickfail).--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:40, 8 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    Agreed, and to Tony's point, the second sentence that I wrote in this discussion was " It would be good to follow Mark's recommendation and go through each of the assessment items and ensure that they are met."--CaroleHenson (talk) 19:11, 8 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    It continues to be my assertion that each assessment item was satisfied at the time the article was failed, which is why I brought the article here.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:40, 8 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    Comments from Cirt
    • NOTE: Please respond, below entire set of comments, and not interspersed throughout, thanks!
    Wikipedia:Good article criteria Review assessment
    1. Wikipedia:Good article criteria = Well-written: Writing quality is concise throughout. Recommendations: I would suggest changing Notes sect to be called Footnotes sect, as Footnotes refers to notes about article text itself, and Notes refers to actual citations in the sect. Parody and satire sect: Might be nice to expand this sect further, but that could be fodder for future quality improvement after GA Review.
    2. Wikipedia:Good article criteria = Verifiable: Article is duly sourced throughout to appropriate citations. Norman Rockwell Museum is most certainly a reliable and verifiable source. There might be future concern if the source is durable in nature. Might be good to make sure it gets saved via Internet Archive and or WebCite.
    3. Wikipedia:Good article criteria = Broad coverage: Each subsection is of appropriate length and breadth. Good scope and structure for article throughout. I particularly like how the intro lede sect, followed by Background, and Description, help to ground the reader in the information presented.
    4. Wikipedia:Good article criteria = Neutral: The article is written from an NPOV standpoint. The presentation is neutral throughout. The wording chosen and stylistic structure is matter-of-fact.
    5. Wikipedia:Good article criteria = Stability review: Looking back two weeks -- article edit history shows some changes but they appear to be constructive in nature. Inspecting article talk page history I see a good deal of discussion but it does also appear to be of positive quality improvement recommendations and there appears to be progress being made here.  Y
    6. Wikipedia:Good article criteria = Image review: File:Freedom From Want.jpg = fair use image, appropriate fair use rationale on image page.  Y. File:Rockwell-Norman-LOC.jpg = image hosted on Wikimedia Commons, but please format using commons:Template:Information, thank you.   Not done.

    A few minor recommendations, above. Otherwise, the article seems fine as per this above point-by-point review according to WP:WIAGA.

    • NOTE: Please respond, below entire set of comments, and not interspersed throughout, thanks!

    Hopefully this is helpful, — Cirt (talk) 19:37, 8 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

    1. ^ Compliance with other aspects of the Manual of Style, or the Manual of Style mainpage or subpages of the guides listed, is not required for good articles.
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