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Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Worcester Ruby Legs all-time roster/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Matthewedwards 22:48, 16 May 2009 [1].

Worcester Ruby Legs all-time roster

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Nominator(s): Neonblak talk -
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I am nominating this for featured list because I believe it meets the criteria for promotion, but will quickly make any changes deemed necessary by the reviewers. Neonblak talk - 02:03, 26 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Truco
Lead
  • Remove bolding, they are not the article titles. Use italics or quotation marks for emphasis instead, see MOS:BOLD.
  • 'The team began in 1879 as the Worcester Baseball Association, and joined the minor league National Association.' - 'began' what?
  • 'On June 12, against the Cleveland Blues, Richmond threw the first perfect game in major league history.' - The 'against the Cleveland Blues' would fit better at the end of the sentence.
  • 'Also, center fielder/first baseman Harry Stovey, in his first major league season, led the league in triples and home runs.' - It would be best to replace 'Also' with Additionally,
  • 'However, the Ruby Legs were, in turn, no-hit on August 20, by Pud Galvin of the Buffalo Bisons, becoming the first team to be no-hit at home.' - Remove the comma after 'August 20'
  • 'They played 85 games that first season, and had a win–loss record of 40 wins, 43 losses, and 2 ties, finishing in fifth place.' - 'that first season' -> in their first' (there is only one first season ever, so 'that' is not the best word choice)
  • 'Team play had declined significantly from the year before; the popular Sullivan was sick with tuberculosis, and shortstop Irwin broke his leg on August 19, which presented a problem due to the fact that the team's backup, Buttercup Dickerson, was also injured at the time.' - Change semi-colon to a colon
  • 'For that day's game, local sports equipment dealer, Martin "Flip" Flaherty was used to help field a full team.' - Remove the comma after 'dealer'
  • 'Things did not improve the following month; Lip Pike was accused of conspiring to throw baseball games, and was later expelled by the NL, and Sullivan succumbed to tuberculosis.' - Semicolon should be a colon
  • 'Dorgan departed the team before the season ended, and Stovey took over as the manager, and the team finished with a record of 32 wins, 50 losses, and 1 tie.' - In the other sentence you state their ranking, what rank did they finish here? (5th, 6th, etc.?)
Table
  • Under the position column, those who have multiple positions, what constitutes the order? Their most played position is listed first, correct?
References
Thank you for thorough review, I've made all the changes you suggested. As far as the players' positions, yes, I put them in order of how much time they spent as a particular position. However, I only used the positions I felt they spent significant time playing. Pitchers then, didn't come out of game when they were replaced with another pitcher, they had to replace someone else in the field and that person would pitch. Most of the time, you can tell if the pitcher played legitimately at another position for a portion of the season.Neonblak talk - 18:17, 27 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
That's fine.--Truco 03:08, 29 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Giants2008
Oppose - Criterion 1. I'm finding too many little glitches at this point; please consider finding a copy-editor to help improve the prose. These comments are from the first 2½ paragraphs, meaning there are probably more problems to be found.
  • "They played in the National League from 1880 to 1882, and they played their home games at the Worcester Agricultural Fairgrounds." Unneeded word, considering "they" is used to begin the sentence.
  • "The team was profitable, were successful against rival teams, and did well against NL teams in exhibition games." Remove "were"; it's redundant and causes a tense problem.
  • "moved with the team when it joined the NL in 1880; including...". Ax "in 1880" because it repeats part of the last sentence, and change the semi-colon to a regular comma.
  • Move no-hitter link to its first use of the sentence.
  • "They played 85 games their first season". Add "in" before "their".
  • I recommend splitting the second sentence of paragraph three in two, by when the players leave. It's a borderline run-on with that many commas.
  • "due to the fact that" → "because". Giants2008 (17-14) 02:39, 30 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the suggestions. I have made the subesequent changes recomended, and did another walk-through myself, and found more sentences that were similar to what you pointed out above, and attempted to make them a smoother read.Neonblak talk - 06:04, 1 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
"Many of the players left as well, who were replaced with the likes of Hick Carpenter and Pete Hotaling." Replace "who" with "and" for a better transition.
"Team play..." > "The team's play..."?
"which had dropped to a season average of fifty paid spectators a game at one point." Make fifty a numeral per MoS.
"who went on to win 328 games in a 12-season career, and the only Hall of Famer to have played for the franchise." Add "was" in the middle of "and the only Hall of Famer".
Table: Typo in Charlie Bennett note: "innaugural season."
Martin Flaherty note: "came out of stands to play". Add "the" in the middle.
Lee Richmond note: "and he threw the major leagues first perfect game." Apostrophe for "leagues".
Asa Stratton note: "in the only game major league game in which he appeared." Extra word in there.
Not quite comfortable dropping the oppose yet, mostly due to the large number of typos and such in the notes. Of course, I'll be glad to reconsider if these are done. Giants2008 (17-14) 20:40, 2 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Suggested corrections made, if you see anything else please let me know.Neonblak talk - 20:00, 3 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Struck the oppose above, after copy-editing some of the notes (the IP is me; I edited on the wrong window). Not going to support until I read it all again because I found another typo, along with one that I mentioned above (both fixed now). I promise to look st it again later. Giants2008 (17-14) 21:14, 4 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Couple more issues before I support, both involving the references. First, what makes Baseball Almanac a reliable source? Second, Slate should be given as the publisher of reference 12. Giants2008 (17-14) 23:26, 4 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I dropped the use of baseball-almanac. Although I consider it a reliable resource, I decided that the information gained from it in, in this instance, is not really necessary. I added Slate magazine under "work" in the reference you pointed out. Let me know if you have any other concerns.Neonblak talk - 19:17, 5 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support - After a lot of work, I finally think it meets the standards. Giants2008 (17-14) 22:09, 6 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 21:52, 15 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)
Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)

"and were replaced with the likes of Hick Carpenter and Pete Hotaling" What does "with the likes of" mean here? Dabomb87 (talk) 23:17, 6 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well, to avoid any amibiguity, I went ahead and re-worded the sentence, hopefully that helps.Neonblak talk - 01:17, 7 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Additionally" Unnecessary.
  • "center fielder/first baseman"-->center fielder / first baseman (per MOS)
  • "This presented a problem with that day's game"-->This presented a problem for that day's game
  • Some batting averages have spaces after the decimal point, and others don't. Make them all unspaced.
  • "Italian-American" No hyphen.
  • "he had one hit in 18 at bats" Per MOSNUM, comparable quantities should be written the same, so "1 hit in 18 at bats" or "one hit in eighteen at bats"
  • "assists with 31."-->assists, with 31.
  • "He played in all three seasons with the Ruby Legs. For most of it, he was their starting shortstop."-->He played in all three seasons, usually as the starting shortstop, with the Ruby Legs.
  • "He pitched in a total of 18 games"
  • "His long and successful career had ended after the 1878 season, when in 1881, he joined the Ruby Legs for five games. He is credited as being the first great Jewish baseball player." Define "long and successful".
  • "three hits in 41 at bats." Same comment about comparable quantities.
  • "He played in 31 games for three different teams in 1881, six of which were for Worcester." "six"-->6 or "31"-->thirty-one. Remove "different".
  • "14 season career"-->14-season career
  • "He played in five games at first base for Worcester in 1881, 33 more for the Troy Trojans. Not a grammatical sentence.
  • "He was the starting third baseman for Worcester in 1880, the first of his 11-season career." You need to say "1880 season". Ditto for the next one (George Wood).
  • Can we have one image in the lead? Dabomb87 (talk) 23:56, 8 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I made all the changes you suggested, except a couple. I am working on the lead photo, will get that fixed tonight. I don't know what UPNE stands for yet, and I did not see any batting averages with a space in between the period and the number.Neonblak talk - 04:45, 9 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 21:53, 15 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

In asbence of any team photos, or anything else depicting the team in any way, I could slide one of the photos I added along the side up to the lead. I would really like to use a John Richmond photo, but cannot find one that definitively states a published date. I'll try and come up with a solution.Neonblak talk - 21:45, 8 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
added photo to lead, made corrections per suggestions.Neonblak talk - 05:32, 11 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
That's a good picture for the lead, but considering the lead's length, I might upsize the picture. Lead images are good up to 300px; 250 might work here. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 12:54, 11 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose and comments from The Rambling Man (talk · contribs) - apologies for any repetitions from previous reviewers...
  • "They played in the National League (NL) from 1880 to 1882, and played their home..." 2x played in one sentence doesn't read particularly exciting.
  • "...vacated spot left by the departing..." vacated, left, departing, a little tautological for me. Perhaps "pursued the spot vacated by the departing..."?
  • "The team was voted in ..." into the league?
  • "began play in 1880" bit colloquial for me. First season?
  • "moved with the team" did it move geographically to be in the NL then?
  • "Center fielder / first baseman " should there be spaces before/after the slash? Not sure what the MOS says.
  • "win–loss record of 40 wins, 43 losses, and 2 ties, finishing in fifth place" - "win–loss record of 40–43, with 2 ties, finishing fifth in the league."?
  • "a much different experience" not keen on this linguistically. Can you rephrase?
  • "Many of the players departed as well,..." quick repetition of "departed", maybe "Many of the players also left the team..."?
  • "The team's play had declined significantly..." jargony - are you referring to the fact they were not as successful this season? Spell it out to non-experts.
  • "Things did not improve ..." - things. Yuck. Perhaps "Matters did not improve.."?
  • "to complain of exhaustion due and accused management of overuse.." - exhaustion due... is something missing here?
  • "8th place", "A second consecutive last-place " - need to make it clear that 8th the previous season was last.
  • "...hich had dropped to a season average of 50.." from what? We have nothing to compare it with.
  • "One of the bright spots for the Ruby Legs ..." seems to be a bright spot for the pitcher, not the Legs, they still finished bottom and dropped out of the NL.
  • "local sporting good retailer " - goods?

The Rambling Man (talk) 16:36, 13 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the review, I made the changes you suggested. Onthe slashes; the one in the lead section, was correct with spaces in between per MOS, but it was unclear on abbreviations like the ones I used for the player position in the table, so I put a space with a non-breaking space as if they were spelled out, ie, RF = right fielder. But to make it look uniform, I used a space for all of them regardless.Neonblak talk - 23:28, 14 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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