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Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Venues of the 2010 Summer Youth Olympics/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 15:08, 11 September 2010 [1].

Venues of the 2010 Summer Youth Olympics edit

Venues of the 2010 Summer Youth Olympics (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): ANGCHENRUI Talk♨ 04:09, 6 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list because I believe it meets the FL criteria. The article content and layout is similar to others on the same topic, such as Venues of the 2008 Summer Olympics and Venues of the 2010 Winter Olympics. Thank you for taking the time to review it. ANGCHENRUI Talk♨ 04:09, 6 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Courcelles 09:21, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
*Oppose While I look forward to seeing this list back here in a couple months, I just can't see how FL criteria 6 could ever be met in a list about an event that hasn't even started yet. No edit wars, but the content will change during the Olympics... at least, it should. Courcelles (talk) 04:24, 6 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I understand your concern. However, while the event has yet to begun, the venues to be used have already been confirmed, and it is highly unlikely there is going to be a change as such. Even if this does occur, the changes will probably be minor. The content change will be in other aspects of the Olympics, such as competition results and controversies etc. Actually, I think criterion 6 doesn't apply in the same way you stated. Regards, ANGCHENRUI Talk♨ 04:32, 6 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • If this nomination gains traction, the article is going to need a rigorous copy-edit. Courcelles (talk) 07:24, 6 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • You mean copyedit as per the typical FLC process? It does sound really major to me. Regards, ANGCHENRUI Talk♨ 12:27, 6 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Go through and check all your tenses, and do something about the first sentence, "The 2010 Summer Youth Olympics was held" and I'll strike my opposition. Courcelles 04:09, 27 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I modified all the tenses on 26 August since the event ended on that day. It's done. As for the first sentence, well it's another grammatical pecularity we are looking at here and I've addressed this in a comment below. ANGCHENRUI Talk♨ 04:23, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 16:14, 16 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments not 100% convinced that this is unstable. If something terribly dramatic occurs at one of the venues then fine, but otherwise I expect these to be the actual venues (they are usually designated well in advance of the event) and the information about them is probably reasonably well known at this point. That notwithstanding (nor wishing to sway reviewers one way or another), some comments:

  • Because of N/A, capacity doesn't sort correctly in Safari.
  • Comma in that lead image (for 25,000)
  • "accomodation" usually has two m's!
  • "the bid to host it " we've lost track of what "it" is, so perhaps "the bid to host the event"?
  • "were temporarily converted" now then, this is the possible issue, this is past tense while the event hasn't actually happened yet. You'd need to keep a close eye on tenses as we move from pre to during to post games...
  • " is the Kallang Field which holds 500." worth noting what this is used for in the lead.
  • I just added it as it would be worth noting. I'm fine though with removing it or editing it. ANGCHENRUI Talk♨ 10:39, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Singapore Sports School" caption is weak, what's its relevance to this list?
  • Tables with one line probably don't need to be sortable!
  • "Existing competition venues" table - The Float@... should initially be above both "Toa"s
  • "*scape" isn't linked at all. Why not?
  • "The Singapore Indoor Stadium" caption, note you have "The" here and not in "Singapore Sports School" and, in any case, weak because the caption doesn't have any significance.
  • YOV section, again, this will need "re-tensing".
  • Should be correct now. Do check as it is possible I might have left a thing or two out. ANGCHENRUI Talk♨ 10:37, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Worth linking SGD to appropriate currency.
  • Terribly I thought the plural of bus was busses not buses...
  • Both are fine according to the dictionary. Maybe another Brit/American thing again. ANGCHENRUI Talk♨ 10:37, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The Rambling Man (talk) 19:44, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Note Seems like I will have to change the tenses on 14 August, which is tomorrow. I'll handle that. ANGCHENRUI Talk♨ 10:31, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Done. ANGCHENRUI Talk♨ 10:08, 18 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Giants2008 (27 and counting) 21:05, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comments – Before I begin the review, I should say, in response to a comment above, that lists should be in shape before coming here. This isn't a copy-editing service for people, and the whole process is more effective when little needs to be done here.
  • Youth Olympic Village: "that all members of an National Olympic Committee team delegation has to stay overnight...". "an" should be "a", and "has" should be plural ("have").
  • I would be inclined to think "an national" is a British English thing again, but I was just Googling and I found these: "Dai Sugano won an national Emmy Award for his Sunnyvale video" and "search for an National Historic Landmark through our online database" (NPS.gov), so I would believe that "an national" is more grammatically appropriate than "a national". I guess this syntax isn't often used though. I've edited "has" to make it "have", thanks a lot. ANGCHENRUI Talk♨ 09:55, 18 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • The quote here is covered by the following reference, correct?
  • Since it's a printed publication, The Straits Times should be in italics.
  • "announced in July 2010 that that...". Repeat word.
  • "being amongst the first green buses to be used in Singapore." "amongst" → "among", to make the writing a shade less fancy.
  • In reference 25, Times of India should be italicized (same reason as an earlier comment). Giants2008 (27 and counting) 01:29, 18 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – Now that all the others who reviewed this seem satisfied, I'll throw in a support as well. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 22:03, 8 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Parutakupiu (talk) 14:26, 29 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comments:
  • Per WP:BOLDTITLE, do not bold "2010 Summer Youth Olympic Games" in the first sentence unless it's a word-by-word reproduction of the title... which is not.
  • The lead image can be resized up to 300 pixels.
  • "The 2010 Summer Youth Olympic Games is..." — Are? If the Games were described as an "event", "is" would be right.
  • Well "games" would be plural, the "games" are part of an "event" which is the Olympics, since its "is". ANGCHENRUI Talk♨ 09:16, 23 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Conceptually, yes. But in prose your "is" is referring to the "Games" which is plural, therefore, I assume, not correct. However, I'm not a native English speaker so I might be wrong; perhaps native speakers could help on this. Parutakupiu (talk) 11:52, 23 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Another grammatical peculiarity that has to occur in this article, but nevertheless here is my response. Here are some quotes I sieved out online: "The phrase "the Olympic Games" usually takes a plural verb... However, as noted in our previous response, the singular verb can occur when the "games" refers to a particular, singular event..." (from this webpage). Also, "(used with a sing. verb) The set of contests that occur in one season: an Olympic Games that was boycotted by many countries" (from this webpage)
  • "...are participating in 184 events in 18 competition venues.[n 1] Events take are taking place at eighteen competition venues, of which eleven are pre-existing venues, one new venue was newly constructed for the Olympics, and six are temporary venues that will be removed following the Games."
  • "The Games is organised..." — are.
  • It wasn't the SYOGOC that won the bid, it was the Singapore bidding committee. The SYOGOC was established with the signing of the host city contract between the IOC and the winning bidding committee.
  • "Certain venues such as the Singapore Indoor Stadium and The Float@Marina Bay have been temporarily converted to host the respective sports, while Kallang Field was upgraded to be able to host the archery competition." — Source?
  • Kallang Field given a citation. I rephrased the first half of the sentence, so Singapore Indoor Stadium and The Float@Marina Bay don't need citations now since they have to be converted anyway to host any thing. ANGCHENRUI Talk♨ 09:16, 23 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "... main stadium for the Games." — I think "main venue" is more appropriate, since not all venues are stadiums.
  • "The 55,000-seater National Stadium will not be used..."
  • I recommend using {{Stack}} to align vertically all those venue images without messing up with the section "edit" links.
  • I decided to use {{Fix bunching}} instead. Issue corrected. ANGCHENRUI Talk♨ 09:29, 23 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • The problem now is that in some browser resolutions the stacked images are pushed to the left by that navigation template below the lead image, and the venue tables are pushed down in consequence... Parutakupiu (talk) 11:52, 23 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Update the tense of the image captions, and add a period at the end.
  • Updated. As for the periods, well in this and this two articles, both of which are FLs, there are no periods in the captions. ANGCHENRUI Talk♨ 09:29, 23 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Just because they are FLs doesn't mean they are top-notch perfect. In fact, the lead image in the 2010 Winter Olympics venue list should have a period. All the others, in both FLs you mentioned are correct because they consist of sentence fragments, not full sentences which would require period marks. In your case, only the image with the Suntec Singapore International doesn't need a period - all the others do. Parutakupiu (talk) 15:09, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • In "Youth Olympic Village", no need to link "SYOGOC" and "National Olympic Committee", as they've been linked before. Also, add periods at the end of those two sentences that close with Rogge's quotes.
Done for SYOGOC and National Olympic Committee. As for the periods, they are already there, placed just before the quotation marks. ANGCHENRUI Talk♨ 09:16, 23 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I mean after the quotation marks. Those are quoted periods but don't work as closing punctuation in the sentences where those quotes are included. Parutakupiu (talk) 15:09, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Okay this only applies to one quote right? One of the quotation marks does work as closing punctuation, so the period comes before the quotation marks. In the other quote, yep the period would be behind the quotation marks. I've made the edits as such. ANGCHENRUI Talk♨ 15:40, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Forget what I said. They were correct with the period inside the quotations. I read the MoS on quotations and it says that period inside quotations serve as closing punctuation for the sentences in which they are included. Sorry, you can revert the changes. Parutakupiu (talk) 16:05, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Done! ANGCHENRUI Talk♨ 08:04, 29 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Massive overlinking in the references section! Leave only the first link to SYOGOC.
  • In "External links", remove the link to the Village because it is already used as citation. Parutakupiu (talk) 23:42, 21 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • But must the external link be removed because the URL is used as a source? After all, it is an informative webpage that is linked and not all readers might see the reference. ANGCHENRUI Talk♨ 09:16, 23 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Nergaal (talk) 23:12, 7 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
*Comment the tree subsections should be definitely be merged into a single table, and two background colors should be used (i.e. blue for the new venue, and red/yellow for the temporary ones). Nergaal (talk) 05:02, 27 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I'm following the precedent set (see here and here), so I'm not for merging the three subsections. Nor using different colours. ANGCHENRUI Talk♨ 11:16, 27 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong oppose then. The nominator is not cooperative and does not seem to understand that precedents are useful but only when the situation is identical. This is a much smaller event, and for example a whole section contains a whole table with one entry. If FACs don't accept one-sentence paragraphs, I don't see why FLCs should accept one-entry tables. Plus, one of the two examples is an almost 2-year old FL. Also, the "*scape" should have a note added to it as to a new reader it may appear as a mistake/joke. Nergaal (talk) 05:17, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Mmm. Precedents are for similar and not limited to identical situations. We can liken it to a persuasive precedent in this case. I understand that the Venues of the 2010 Winter Olympics article used only one table to list all competitive venues, but that event used fewer venues than the one we are looking at. I decided to follow Venues of the 2008 Summer Olympics as a more appropriate model – which used three tables. As for the *scape issue, okay I think I will add a note there. Labelling me as "not cooperative" is rather hurtful and I hope you will not use on it me again. Thank you, ANGCHENRUI Talk♨ 06:38, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Looks really nice now. One issue though: "10 to 28 August 2010 for a total of 18 days"??? Also, is the author of the sculpture known? Nergaal (talk) 20:14, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • The 18 days mention has been removed. You mean the sculptor? Okay, I've mentioned the sculptor's name. ANGCHENRUI Talk♨ 14:43, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Another thing: intro does not say one word on the YOV. Please fix that. Nergaal (talk) 20:16, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Actually it does, look at the last sentence of the first paragraph. Cheers, ANGCHENRUI Talk♨ 14:43, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support all the issues I had were solved, and the list looks like it is as best as it is going to get. Nergaal (talk) 23:12, 7 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Goodraise 15:00, 8 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
* I don't understand why you present the competition venues in three separate tables instead of one. By doing so, you sacrifice some of the list's functionality (table sort). What is it that you gain? Goodraise 23:46, 29 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I had the intention of following Venues of the 2008 Summer Olympics as I stated earlier. Though in retrospect, merging the three into one table is definitely possible, although using different colours in that one table as suggested by Nergaal might not be necessary. I say: if we merge, add one column to the table, which will denote the status of the venue (new, existing or temporary). Agree? Thank you. ANGCHENRUI Talk♨ 14:17, 30 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • That would be better than the present version. Nergaal (talk) 17:00, 30 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • What are "youth athletes"? Is that term used in the sources? Why not just say "athletes"?
  • I would think both terms are used, though I decided to use "athletes" alone anyway. ANGCHENRUI Talk♨
  • "from 10 to 28 August 2010 for a total of 18 days" - That's so obvious, pointing it out is basically insulting the reader's intelligence.
  • Not sure if I placed that, though I've personally removed it. ANGCHENRUI Talk♨ 14:54, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The International Olympic Committee (IOC) specifies that all members ..." - Are you sure about the tenses in this paragraph? Shouldn't it be past tense?
  • Well, the rule applies to all the Youth Olympic Games and not just this one, so it is still "present". Cheers, ANGCHENRUI Talk♨ 14:54, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • How can you be sure that it will apply to any future Youth Olympic Games? You can't. That's why this needs to be changed somehow. Goodraise 06:17, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "IOC president Jacques Rogge was quoted as saying that a fun element should be instilled in the Games and that there should not be 'a gravity that you have at the traditional Games that's for later.'" - Looking at the source, this seems to be a somewhat rough translation. I'd rather see the whole sentence quoted so as not to give the impression that the bad grammar is a result of your abridging.
  • [citation needed] flags are unacceptable in featured lists.
  • It was added very recently, I've addressed and cleared that. ANGCHENRUI Talk♨ 14:54, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose for now. Goodraise 09:42, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • "About Us - Our Story" - Use an en-dash.
  • The webpage isn't using the dash type you specified. I just copied the one it used. ANGCHENRUI Talk♨ 10:15, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Admirably cautious, but this falls under "allowable typographical changes". (See MOS:QUOTE.) Goodraise 11:42, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • The date format should be consistent throughout the article (including references).
  • The copyright claim at the bottom of ref. 35 is made by "morethanthegames.com". That's normally what should be put into the "publisher" field.
  • Analogously: "RedSports.sg" -> "Red Sports".

Goodraise 06:55, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • In the references, either use SYOGOC or Singapore Youth Olympic Games Organising Committee, but not both.

Goodraise 07:00, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Okay that reference was recently added, I've corrected it. ANGCHENRUI Talk♨ 10:15, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The Games was ..." - Is it common to use singular here?
  • By convention, yes. It's been raised twice, and I've addressed the word form issue there. ANGCHENRUI Talk♨ 04:22, 6 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "... Singapore Youth Olympic Games Organising Committee (SYOGOC), which the city-state of Singapore won the bid to host ..." - I guess you mean they won the bid to host the Games, but that's not what this passage says. It says that they won the bid to host the SYOGOC.
  • "... to be constructed for the Games, and it was completed in 2009." - This feels clumsy.
  • "was the only new venue to be constructed for the Games" - Redundant wording. Goodraise 11:23, 7 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The 55,000-seater National Stadium was not used as it is undergoing demolition ..." - That state won't persist.
  • "... Kallang Field which held 500." - 500 spectators were there throughout the Games?

Goodraise 12:40, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • "Weightlifting, volleyball" - W follows V.
  • "volleyball, Weightlifting" - Mind the capitalization. Goodraise 11:23, 7 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sorting by capacity isn't working properly.
  • Training venues aren't sorted alphabetically by default.
  • "football, fencing," - O follows E.

Goodraise 12:49, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • If you link Singapore Youth Olympic Games Organising Committee only a single time in the references, then you should link it the first time it appears.

Goodraise 12:51, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • "... expected to open in 2014." - How is that relevant?
  • "to make way for the Singapore Sports Hub expected to open after the Games." - Again, how is that relevant to the "Venues of the 2010 Summer Youth Olympics"? Goodraise 11:23, 7 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • It's really add-on information, since the national stadium of the country is usually used for major events like this. It's about the main venue, so a line of explanation regarding its selection is fine, I believe? ANGCHENRUI Talk♨ 13:15, 7 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Goodraise 12:40, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Nominator away for few days I will be away on overseas travel for a few days. I don't see any major issues/problems with the FLC right now, so if any minor issues/errors arise over the next few days, I hope someone will take the onus and correct them so long they do not impact the gist of the article. Thanks, ANGCHENRUI Talk♨ 14:09, 8 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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