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Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Mexican National Welterweight Championship/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by The Rambling Man 17:35, 1 December 2009 [1].

Mexican National Welterweight Championship edit

Nominator(s):  MPJ-DK  (No Drama) Talk  10:28, 22 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Toolbox

I have nominated this list after working on it for a long time, both the copyedit and the red link criteria. I've created articles for Jack O'Brien (wrestler), Alberto Muñoz, Kung Fu (wrestler), Américo Rocca, Franco Columbo, El Supremo (wrestler), Mocho Cota, Chamaco Valaguez, Águila Solitaria, Ciclón Ramírez, Fantasma de la Quebrada, El Salsero, Nygma (wrestler), El Torero, Karloff Lagarde, Jr., Tigre Blanco, Doctor X (wrestler), Valiente (wrestler) and I now believe it fulfils all FL criterias.

The remaining names on the list are not linked, I could not find much information on them in general, the only notable thing seems to be winning this title and no other titles. I left them unliked as I don't think it's realistic that anyone could find enough information to establish much in the way of notability. It follows the pattern and format of all the other wrestling championship lists I've brought to FL status.

Any and all comments are welcome.  MPJ-DK  (No Drama) Talk  10:28, 22 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support: Meets to me.--WillC 06:40, 14 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Wrestlinglover
    • WL's review

Give review tomorrow hopefully. At the moment, it seems fine from just skiming it, but never know.--WillC 06:42, 24 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Lead
  • "The Mexican National Welterweight Championship (Campeonato Nacional Peso Welter in Spanish) is a Mexican professional wrestling championship" → "The Mexican National Welterweight Championship (Campeonato Nacional Peso Welter in Spanish) is a Mexican professional wrestling welterweight championship" To be clear and match articles of this nature.
  • It's pretty clear already, I mean the weightclass is already in the name, saying the welterweight championship is a welterweight championship is redundant IMO. MPJ-DK  (36,6% Done) Talk  07:41, 4 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Well this is the introduction. It is like world heavyweight championships. We state they are whcs after we give the name still.--WillC 03:40, 5 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I know, but to show how things have usually been done. Thought it was best to follow the usual format.--WillC 20:20, 5 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The usual format" is one that's not actually applied to 90% of the titles with actual weight limits, so I respectfully disagree that it's "how this have usually been done" and the fact that it's redundant and IMO poor writing.  MPJ-DK  (36,6% Done) Talk  06:43, 6 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Okay, just thought it was better to keep consistent between championship articles. But that isn't a must. Fine.--WillC 07:11, 6 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "(EMLL; later renamed Consejo Mundial de Lucha Libre, CMLL)" → "(EMLL; later renamed CMLL)" Mentioned earlier, don't see a reason to repeat.
  • Good catch, I chose to have the long spelled out name though and removed the abbriviation as that was established earlier. MPJ-DK  (36,6% Done) Talk  07:41, 4 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "having defeated Sangre Azteca for the title." → "having defeated Sangre Azteca." Seems a bit redundant.
Title history
  • Fine, but having the notes in the notes section be full sentences would be nice.
Reigns by combined length
  • Will assume everything is in order since this isn't your first go around.
Footnotes
  • I see some say between 1 day and, etc. You know, I would change it to between 0 days, etc. Maining because it is possible they could have lost the same day they lost it. Just a thought, that is what I've been doing with List of WCW World Television Champions in a subpage.
  • 0 or 1 are both assumptions with 1 being much more likely in Mexican wrestling, It's never been commented before so maybe opening this issue up to other reviwers? Wether reigns with an unknown length should be listed as between 0 days and "end" or 1 day and "end".  MPJ-DK  (36,6% Done) Talk  07:41, 4 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Well if you look at this subpage of my work, you'll hopefully see the reason I think it should be the other way.--WillC 03:40, 5 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
References
  • Seems fine.--WillC 06:35, 4 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Giants2008 (27 and counting) 03:08, 15 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Comments –
  • "While the commission sanctions the title, it does not promote the events at which the title is defended.le Consejo...". What's going on after the period?
  • "making it one of the oldest still promoted titles today...". Move "titles" to before "still" for better sentence flow.
  • No need for two Professional wrestling promotion links in the lead.
  • Note in table: "Championship vacated after Escobedo dies in an automobile accident." Change "dies" to past tense.
  • Footnote 2: Comma after "a belt with a 87 kg upper limit". Also, should second "a" be "an"? Giants2008 (17–14) 00:16, 4 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed and yes I think it should be.  MPJ-DK  (36,6% Done) Talk  01:35, 4 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Two more things I found during a second look:

  • Note in table: "Championship vacated when Ultraman 2000 changes his identity to Damian 666." I think "changes" should be "changed" to provide past tense.
  • The title of the first general reference shouldn't have all caps. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 03:08, 15 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support – Meets FL standards after the fixes. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 17:06, 17 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 16:17, 24 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)
Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)
  • For the Consejo Mundial de Lucha Libre promotion in the infobox: "–1992"; why is there no year before the dash?
  • Because I have found no documentation when CMLL became the sole promoter, it was between the mid-1930s and the 1960s but I have not found anything more definite than that.  MPJ-DK  (40,4% Done) Talk  11:15, 24 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Comisión de Box y Lucha Libre Mexico D.F." Why in quotation marks?
  • Well, I don't think it should be in italics either. You're not mentioning a word, and even though it is in a foreign language, it is a proper noun, so italics aren't necessary to denote it as a foreign word. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:50, 24 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "titles still promoted today and older" "today" is redundant.
  • "but as Empressa Mexicana de Lucha Libre (EMLL; later renamed Consejo Mundial de Lucha Libre) grew to dominance it" Sounds strange. How about "but as Empressa Mexicana de Lucha Libre ... became dominant, it"
  • "having held it for only two days."
  • You use an em dash in the key but en dashes in the table. I suggest using em dashes for consistency.
  • "(n)" Is this symbol even used in the table?
  • The "Combined days" column in the combined length table does not sort properly.
  • I'm using Firefox 3.5. Click on the combined days column once, and "100+" comes between 42 and 45. Later on, 1736 comes between 154 and 176. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:49, 24 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Psicosis two day regin"-->Psicosis' two-day reign
  • Footnotes 5–12 need periods at the end.
  • Footnote 11 has strange "sort" syntax in it. Dabomb87 (talk) 21:28, 23 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 16:17, 24 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Ref 3, what does "pp. all" mean? Dabomb87 (talk) 21:28, 23 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • It means the entire book is the source. The claim is that it's one of the oldest still existing titles, the book is the collective title history going back to the turn of the last century and it proves that there are only 2 or 3 titles as old as this one still around (and they're all "Mexican National" titles) I changed the "All" to the page range of the actual title history in the book.  MPJ-DK  (40,4% Done) Talk  11:15, 24 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 09:23, 30 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
  • "Being a professional wrestling championship, it is not won legitimately; it is instead won via a scripted ending to a match or awarded to a wrestler because of a storyline. The official definition of the welterweight weight class in Mexico is between 77 kg (170 lb) and 87 kg (190 lb), but is not always strictly enforced.[Note 2][1] Because Lucha Libre emphasizes the lower weight classes, this division is considered more important than the normally more prestigious heavyweight division of a promotion.[2]" - reads odd way round for me. I'd keep defining the competition before you state how it's won. So, simply put, I'd move the "Being a professional..." sentence to end of that para.
  • "which proceeded to promote " just "which promoted" would be fine.
  • "having held it for" - perhaps "having held the title for..."?
  • Don't see a clear need for linking to wiktionary for "vacated".
  • It's standard in all wrestling related FLs and well "vacated" may mean different things to different people I suppose.  MPJ-DK  (40,4% Done) Talk  00:03, 29 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is the Event column needed since all actual events are Live event?
  • I have not linked names where I could not find any information other than the fact that they held this title, I deemed that they were not notable and left them unlinked.  MPJ-DK  (40,4% Done) Talk  00:03, 29 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "a belt with an 87 kg (190 lb) upper limit, despite weighing 90 kg (200 lb)" - whose conversion is this? 3kg does not equate to 10lb...
  • Specific ref 2 should be "The Bizarre and Honorable World of Wild Mexican Wrestling"

The Rambling Man (talk) 18:33, 28 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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