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Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of awards and nominations received by The Elephant Man/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was not promoted by Giants2008 19:27, 15 January 2012 [1].

List of awards and nominations received by The Elephant Man edit

List of awards and nominations received by The Elephant Man (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): GRAPPLE X 16:51, 5 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list because I feel it meet the criteria. This is my first foray into FL territory, but I feel the list is complete, verifiable, visually pleasing and easy to navigate. The table layout has been modelled on the currently FL-class list List of accolades received by The Young Victoria; while any files used have been taken from Commons as I feel non-free files would not be justified due to such a list containing no critical commentary. If anything requires overhauling or fixing, I will be free to respond to any queries from tomorrow onwards. Thanks! GRAPPLE X 16:51, 5 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Ruby2010

Resolved comments from Ruby 2010/2013 04:47, 16 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
* Anything in the lead but not in the main body needs references (this includes the first and third paragraphs)
    • Those paragraphs just cover the cast and plot. Should I just cite the film itself for that? GRAPPLE X 12:22, 14 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • I see that you just rewrote/removed those two paragraphs. Looks good. Ruby 2010/2013 04:47, 16 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "John" Merrick -> John Merrick (no needs for quotes, you've already established they changed the name for the film)
  • The Princess of Wales, Alexandra of Denmark -> The [[Alexandra of Denmark|Princess of Wales]]
  • "...;yet being tormented by his night porter (Elphick) and abducted by his former employer (Jones)." Fragmented sentence
  • "The film was also greatly successful critically, garnering universal acclaim[4]" Needs re-phrasing (I dislike greatly...critically in same sentence)
  • "The film's technical production was also similarly lauded. John Morris' score was also nominated for several awards..." also... also
  • "...;whilst the film's cinematography, by English cinematography Freddie Francis, was also up for several awards, receiving one from the British Society of Cinematographers." Another fragmented sentence (be careful with those semi-colons)
    • Although it wasn't a fragment (verb/subject/object all there), I've split it into a new sentence and reworded it as it seemed too lengthy and run-on when I looked at it again. So fixed, I guess. GRAPPLE X 12:22, 14 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Academy Award and BAFTA nominations were also received by the film for its film editing, costume design, art direction and screenplay." Awkward phrasing
  • Refs 1 and 2: Need spaces between pp. and number
  • Ref 5: Wikilink Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences
  • Italicize Billboard
    • Fixed. Was a problem with the citation template, it removed the italics when I had entered ''Billboard'' in the parameter. :S GRAPPLE X 12:22, 14 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wikilink first mention of people in table (i.e. wikilink David Lynch in first row; look for others) Ruby 2010/2013 18:23, 13 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Fixed. Think I got all the first mentions, let me know if I missed any. Thanks for looking over it. GRAPPLE X 12:22, 14 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

A few more comments:

  • "The film was also a critical success, garnering universal acclaim[4] and receiving multiple award nominations for both Lynch and Hurt at both the Academy Awards and British Academy Film Awards, winning the Best Film award at the latter, as well as Best Foreign Film at the César Awards." Too much of a run-on sentence. Needs fixing
    • Split into a few sentences now. GRAPPLE X 05:24, 16 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Freddie Francis and John Morris are wikilinked more than once in table. Make sure only the first mention of John Hurt is wikilinked in table. Ruby 2010/2013 04:47, 16 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Also, I think you should move the article to List of accolades received by The Elephant Man for consistence with other film lists Ruby 2010/2013 04:49, 16 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • I'f I move it I've a few to move and some incoming links to fix; I'll get it done but it'll probably be tomorrow evening. I didn't go with "accolades" initially as it's less direct, but if it's the more common one I'll use it. GRAPPLE X 05:24, 16 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • This [[Category:Lists of accolades by film]] shows the other film lists: all accolades! :) You can always move it when/if the article is promoted. Ruby 2010/2013 00:47, 18 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Have just moved the lot. Chrome really needs a find-and-replace function. GRAPPLE X 01:08, 18 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Looks good. Happy to support this one. Ruby 2010/2013 01:17, 18 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comments –

  • Bold links like the one in the intro are discouraged by the MoS.
    • Removed the bolding. GRAPPLE X 15:20, 15 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "winning the award Best Film at the latter". Try switching the order of "award" and "Best Film". Seems like that is the more logical order for that sentence.
    • You're completely right, not sure how I missed that. GRAPPLE X 15:20, 15 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The film's cinematography, by English cinematography Freddie Francis". Shouldn't the second one be "cinematographer"?
  • I see Eric Bergren and Eric Bergen in the table. Which is it?
    • Bergren. Typo on my part. GRAPPLE X 15:20, 15 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Refs 4, 6, 9, 10, and 11 have faulty hyphens in the titles that should be converted into en dashes. Giants2008 (Talk) 03:31, 15 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Those hyphens are already present in the source, they're not dashes in the titles being quoted. I had a look through the MOS for dashes and linking, and since there's nothing to specifically say they should be converted, I'd rather stick with the exact source text than to hypercorrect. GRAPPLE X 15:20, 15 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

  • What makes it an "American" film? (not intended to be inflammatory but an British cast and British director, set in Britain, but just so happens to be produced by an American film company, is that it?)
  • Five paras in the lead is way over the top (see WP:LEAD) so look at merging down to a max of three.
  • Now, having said that, is there a reason why this needs to be a standalone list? Right now, the film's main article is very short, so this info could easily be merged into it.

I'll leave it here because I'm concerned over the 3b issue. Especially since only the last two paras of the lead talk about awards, the rest of it being common to the main article. If the community can resolve that, I'll pop back later to finish reviewing. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:09, 15 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

    • Now that you mention it, I could easily remove the plot summary as it's not needed and trim some of the rest back down a good bit. However, the film is American as the production company and director are American - Lynch is from Montana. Yes, the cast is primarily English (with a Welshman), but it's an American production that they're starring in (though don't get me wrong, I'm an Irishman who's not too keen on the Hollywood-centric view of cinema). I've had a look over the relevant MOS for standalone lists, and although this type of list isn't mentioned, there's nothing to say that an expanded version of something which is expected to be covered in less detail in the film's own article shouldn't be allowed to stand on its own. GRAPPLE X 22:18, 15 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Good work, but the table could just be added to the rather-short film article itself.—indopug (talk) 07:27, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If the film article had a well-developed "Reception" section which listed the awards in lesser detail rather than in great focus, would this then be avoided? It's just that I'll probably ditch this project if this isn't a fixable issue, but I'll overhaul each relevant film's article with its sister list if that avoids this problem. GRAPPLE X 17:01, 7 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Length seems fine to me. One question - is it usual to reference each category within a single ceremony, or would one over-arching reference be enough? Lugnuts (talk) 15:34, 27 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I guess it's a stylistic thing. I felt that since the Golden Globes section used different refs for some awards, then I'd keep those specific to each award, and the rest fell in line with that. If it would be preferable to use the citations once each after the award ceremony instead of the categories, then I can do that. GRAPPLE X 15:41, 28 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I also have to chime in that it just seems too short to warrant its own list. I could easily see all of the information in this list consolidated down to a nice, tight paragraph for the core Elephant Man article. It is policy, as per WP:PROSE, to avoid tables when the same information can be conveyed in prose. But if the community thinks it's long enough to stand-alone, then I suppose I don't object.--Remurmur (talk) 13:44, 2 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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