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Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Tranmere Rovers F.C. managers/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 19:57, 12 November 2011 [1].

List of Tranmere Rovers F.C. managers edit

List of Tranmere Rovers F.C. managers (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): U+003F? 09:16, 19 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list as part of a fun mission getting the Tranmere family of articles to a better standard (than the team). This list recently had a positive peer review, and seems of a comparable standard to lists on Liverpool and Birmingham (unlike the team). Hope you enjoy the read! U+003F? 09:16, 19 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from NapHit (talk) 12:42, 22 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
  • "before finally bowing out to Liverpool" I would change this to "before losing to Liverpool"
  • Table needs a caption
  • I would the disclaimer about the statistics being up to the 2010-11 season to before the table
  • You need to put a header in the refs column, also I would consider moving this to the end of the table
  • I understand you using refs to cover the dates of earlier managers, but is there a need for separate ones for recent managers when the soccerbase refs cover this area?
  • Also I would consider moving those refs in the dates area into the refs column, seeing as that is what it's for
  • You need to add any authors for the RSSSF pages, as its copyrighted, therefore they need attributing.
  • What makes tranmererovers-mad.co.uk a reliable source?
It's not. Which is a shame, because they're both well-written articles. I'll look into resourcing or removing the statements. U+003F? 21:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Now replaced with other sources. U+003F? 11:06, 21 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • I see you use a number of books but don't give the page number fro those books, this needs to be done. I would also use a shorthand when referencing books such as the author, year of publication and page number and list the books in a bibliography below the references.
I've gone my own way with layout here. How does it look? U+003F? 09:46, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Changed as suggested, for consistency with other manager lists. U+003F? 09:40, 22 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would remove the link to When Saturday Comes seeing as no other publishers are wikilinked

Nice to see a list about a local team (I live in Chester) getting nominated. If you want any input with further articles or lists I'd be happy to help :) Overall, its very good, great work. NapHit (talk) 12:02, 19 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'll definitely be taking you up on that offer! U+003F? 21:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support All my concerns have been satisfactorily dealt with and I'm happy the list is of featured quality. Well done NapHit (talk) 12:42, 22 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment
  • Opening sentence, we know its a club from its full name, so the rest of it doesn't make sense. And a club is a collective word, hence shouldn't be plural. Try, "Tranmere Rovers Football Club was founded in 1884, and was/is based in Birkenhead, Wirral."
I disagree with the second half of your comment. The discretionary plural is commonly applied to sports teams in British English. Whilst I don't think either form (singular or plural) is more correct, I tend to prefer Tranmere/the club/the team are... U+003F? 21:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • though the directors continued to pick the team --> What is the significance of this phrase? Were the directors supposed to be involved in picking a manager also? Its not clear.
Changed to "continued to choose the team for each game". Is that clearer? U+003F? 21:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • where they were, again, founder members --> you don't need the commas here. works fine as a continuous sentence
done U+003F? 09:56, 4 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • he introduced an all-white strip --> This is not clear, was it the cloths or mascot or waht?
Replaced strip with kit, is that more clear? U+003F? 21:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • and making 241 appearances --> appearances as?
Reordered sentence for clarity. U+003F? 21:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Betweem Aldridge and Parry, there seems to be no mention of the intermediate managers? What did they do wrong?
I don't think it's necessary to mention all the managers. As it stands, the history focuses on those who've won something. U+003F? 21:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why is the "To" column not sorted?
done U+003F? 09:56, 4 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • There should be a heading for the column containing references to the statistics.
done U+003F? 09:56, 4 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • 1913–4 --> 1913–14
done U+003F? 09:56, 4 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Check the date ranges in the notes section. 1939–1942 should be 1939–42.
done U+003F? 09:56, 4 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the references, what is "Footy Mad"?
See response to NapHit comment above. U+003F? 21:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
done U+003F? 09:56, 4 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • What makes tranmererovers a reliable source?
    • Do you refer to tranmererovers.co.uk, currently used in three refs? That's the club's official website, so it's hard to see how it could not be reliable for info on the club...... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Finally, alt text for Image:Bert_Cooke.jpg is wrong. Please see WP:ALT. — Legolas (talk2me) 19:09, 19 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Plumped for |alt=refer to caption, but am not certain this is any better. U+003F? 21:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
It was changed to |alt=Black and white photograph of a man wearing a flat cap and a suit, but I think this is wrong too, as per the context example. Anyone with more experience of alt text know the right way? U+003F? 13:39, 22 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Changed to |alt=Black and white photograph of Bert Cooke. U+003F? 12:12, 25 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Righty-ho. Thanks for all the comments, I've dealt with your criticisms as best I can. Are there any outstanding issues? U+003F? 20:48, 5 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hey U+003F, sorry for returning sooooo late to the nomination. i had personal issues to deal with and was on leave. Anyways, I can surely support the nomination, seeing that my comments are dealt with and I did not see any other errors. TRM or DAbomb, you can close this now. — Legolas (talk2me) 06:18, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Giants2008 (27 and counting) 21:14, 5 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comments –
  • The lead is quite short at one paragraph and a one-sentence second paragraph. I'd love to see the intro beefed up to a couple of nice-sized paras.
Had a punt at expanding the lead. Better? U+003F? 11:34, 4 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • History: World War II is an item that is so well-known that it doesn't really need the link. All it does is make the page a little more blue, which isn't always a good things.
done U+003F? 09:56, 4 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "amongst" → "among"?
Actually, I prefer whilst/amongst, but then I am very old (at heart). Done. U+003F? 09:28, 30 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Remove hyphen in "newly-formed Premier League in 1993". Also, is the hyphen in "cup-runs" desirable?
done U+003F? 11:36, 4 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Could change "whilst" to "while", a simpler form, in note 3.
done U+003F? 09:56, 4 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Would be nice to see a bullet point added to the general reference.
done U+003F? 09:56, 4 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Publisher of ref 18 (When Saturday Comes) should be italicized since it's a printed publication. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 03:25, 30 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
done U+003F? 11:34, 4 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • What makes Historical Football Kits (ref 17) a reliable source?
I would argue that the site has a comprehensive and well-researched kit history for all British teams. But I don't know how to be certain of its reliability, other than the rather tame note that it's used on other featured pages (such as Arsenal F.C.) But if it's not good enough, I could change "these have been Tranmere's usual colours since" to a weaker statement about these being Tranmere's colours today. U+003F? 09:28, 30 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
HFK creator David Moor is a published author on the subject of football kits (see here) - does that help at all....? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:19, 2 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Not 100% sure one way or the other. I think I'll leave this out so other reviewers can have a look. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 21:14, 5 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Please don't strike a reviewer's comments before they've had a chance to look at the changes. It goes against FLC instructions and creates problems if further work is needed on an issue (it happens more than you'd think). Giants2008 (27 and counting) 18:04, 2 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Live and learn. Thanks (and thanks for the suggestions). U+003F? 09:56, 4 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

And thanks to you too for taking the time to read through the list, and for your valuable suggestions. Are any further changes needed? U+003F? 20:48, 5 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from U+003F? 12:36, 26 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
;Comment
  • The references in the Notes section have gone seriously wonky. Doubtless this is due to the latest MediaWiki rollout. It seems to affect my firefox browser, but not safari nor opera. Is this bug this bug likely to affect the list's acceptance? U+003F? 21:54, 5 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
This bug has (already) been fixed. U+003F? 09:13, 6 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Arsenikk (talk) 08:35, 7 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
;Comments
  • I haven't the slightest idea where Wirral is, although it does sound quite Australian. It would be nice if you put in the country to establish context.
Ha! U+003F? 23:35, 6 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Avoid contractions: use the more formal "were not" instead of "weren't".
  • No need to repeat links from the lead in the history section.
  • Perhaps link "player-manager".
  • "Stadium" in Wembley is capitalized. Similarly, "Tranmere Hall of Fame" is a proper noun and should be capitalized
  • Avoid single-sentence paragraphs.
  • Each cell should begin with a capital letter. "Present" should not be in italics.
  • References should be center-aligned
Is there a way to centre an entire column other than my approach of assigning
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 16:10, 31 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
  • Think you can wikilink all of "2011–12 season" rather than just the year range.
  • "hold this role" perhaps "hold this position" or "fulfil this role"? Similarly comment at the start of the History section.
  • "and stayed in charge" would prefer "and remained in charge" but it's not a big deal.
  • "two divisions above.[14]" ->"two divisions above Tranmere.[14]"

The Rambling Man (talk) 12:25, 24 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

All done. Thanks a bunch. U+003F? 13:11, 24 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support good work after PR and this FLC, and a pleasure to work with you. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:10, 31 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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