Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Sega video game consoles/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Crisco 1492 09:27, 25 October 2014 [1].

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List of Sega video game consoles

List of Sega video game consoles (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

• Featured list candidates/List of Sega video game consoles/archive1

Nominator(s): PresN 23:27, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Over the past year or so, I've been increasingly impressed by the way a group of users from WP:SEGA, especially User:Red Phoenix, have been getting all of the Sega console articles and lists up to good or featured status, and I decided to pitch in a bit. The result is this list, designed to tie together the consoles into a massive featured/good topic. I've gone through and hunted down, to the best of my ability, references for facts about the lifecycles, abilities, add-ons, and sales performances of every console Sega ever released, including the ones no one outside of Japan has really heard of. The consoles are illustrated, generally by User:Evan-Amos's delightful photos, and I think it's a solid little list that's a bit different from what I usually do. Thanks for reviewing! --PresN 23:27, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Red Phoenix ^{let's talk...}

Comments from Red Phoenix ^{let's talk...}:

PresN, let me start by saying thank you for your praise. With only Dreamcast to go, I wouldn't be surprised if this does become a featured topic sometime soon. In the meantime, I'd be glad to pitch in and do a review of this list, which FLC delegates should know for the record that I have not had any personal involvement in.

• Links to Advanced Pico Beena need to be corrected to go to Sega Pico#Advanced Pico Beena, as that article has recently been redirected as part of a rewrite I did on Sega Pico.

• Done. --PresN 22:13, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

• The 1UP reference link is down. Some of these have been appearing on the Wayback Machine as of late and also through text mirroring sites, so I'd try and see if you can get a hold of an archival link for that. It appears to be the only 404'd link on the page.

• Managed to double-bounce it: a webcitation archive of the archive.org archive. --PresN 22:13, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

• References all appear to be nice and solid, but on a side note I'd recommend archiving GameSpot links because they've been known by WP:VG to have some decay recently. That last part is not necessary for this FLC, but a friendly suggestion, just like all of my FLCs where you've suggested I do the same.

• Fixed my archiving script and archived all the online refs. --PresN 22:13, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

• It's worthy of note in the third-party variants that the Sega Pico was also re-released by Majesco Entertainment.

• Done. --PresN 22:13, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

• Per MOS:DTT, the wikitable should make use of row and column scopes. Row headers can be plain, however.

• Done. --PresN 22:13, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Everything else appears to check out to me with no other significant concerns. Fantastic work. Red Phoenix ^{let's talk...} 01:02, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

Oops, missed one: Quick fact-check! - "Handheld game console version of the Master System, though it could not play Master System games without a Master System Converter accessory[27]" This comment about the Sega Game Gear isn't quite true, and it's not backed up in the source used, either. It's certainly true that the Game Gear shared a lot of similarities with the Master System and even GamesRadar said "it was basically the Sega Master System in your hands", but the Game Gear was quite distinct in that it ran its own game library and cartridges, unlike the Sega Nomad, which just runs Genesis cartridges. The source, including other sources at Sega Game Gear, also draw parallels to the Master System but don't say that it was explicitly a handheld version of the Master System. Red Phoenix ^{let's talk...} 01:09, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

Split into two lines- first is that it was Sega's first handheld game console, second is that it's "Similar to the Master System, though it could not play Master System games without a Master System Converter accessory" - is that fine? --PresN 22:13, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Pinging Red Phoenix - thanks for reviewing! --PresN 23:23, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Support - Very nicely done! I've added Sega's logo to the lead just to give the article a little color and help illustrate the company which is the focus of this article. Sega's logo is PD because it doesn't meet the threshold of originality, so there are no image copyright concerns. Awesome work! Red Phoenix ^{let's talk...} 04:53, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

Comments from Tezero

In addition to Red Phoenix's comments:

• Intro could probably use some more citations for things not covered in the body... list, like the first sentence about Sega itself.

• Found a good "History of" article to source things to. --PresN 23:23, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

• I'd suggest splitting the opening paragraph after "the Dreamcast in 1998".

• Done, now that I've added a few sentences to both sides. --PresN 23:23, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

• Also might be worth listing Sega's formation date and saying a little about their early history - mainly arcade games and pachinko, I think - for context on what they were doing before consoles.

• Done. --PresN 23:23, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

• Why is every instance of the generations linked?

• When tables are sortable, instead of just linking the first instance you link them all, since you don't know what row is going to be first for a given reader. --PresN 23:23, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

• Not a requirement, but I'd like a little on why Sega's significant in the game industry (e.g. forming the first serious challenge to Nintendo, Virtua Fighter, Sonic the Hedgehog in the early '90s and again around the turn of the millennium, Altered Beast, maybe Jet Set Radio).

• I've added a bit about them being a primary competitor to Nintendo, but I don't want to turn the lead into a "history of Sega"- the Sega article should do that. --PresN 23:23, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Looks great otherwise, though, and I'll be happy to support in what should be short order. Oh, and PresN... you said to remind you at the end of the week about my FAC, so hey. Tezero (talk) 19:17, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for reviewing, Tezero! I'll review your article tomorrow over lunch. --PresN 23:24, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

• Support; good point about the sorting, something I'd never thought much about before and that's applicable to many, many other FLs. Not sure why you cited the same source twice in succession in the lead, but hey, sometimes that extra bit of justification is deemed necessary. Good work. Tezero (talk) 00:01, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

Don't mean to throw a wrench in this, but Jucchan claimed Pico's Japanese discontinuation date isn't in that source. « Ryūkotsusei » 18:32, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

Adjusted to just be "2005"; that was the year the Beena successor came out, and the last year any games were released for the Pico, but he's right that it may be a bit spurious to claim that the Pico was discontinued on that specific day just because that was when the successor was released. --PresN 22:13, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

Review from JimmyBlackwing

Resolved issues

Kind of odd that this nom has gone almost a month without any comments. I'll review it here in a few days. Reserving this space so the nom doesn't get archived. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 06:18, 21 October 2014 (UTC) Thanks very much! --PresN 16:10, 21 October 2014 (UTC) Prose comments "Sega is a Japanese multinational video game developer, publisher, and hardware development company headquartered in Tokyo, Japan, with multiple offices around the world." — There's a lot of redundancy here: "Sega is a ... multinational [company] ... with multiple offices around the world"; "Sega is a Japanese ... company headquartered in Tokyo, Japan". On top of that, I'm not sure "Japanese multinational" is a meaningful phrase. Aren't the two things mutually exclusive? "Sega has developed and manufactured numerous video game consoles" — We were just told that they were a hardware company. One of the mentions should be tweaked to prevent redundancy. "These consoles" — Fourth instance of "consoles" in two sentences. "during the third through sixth console generations" —> "from the third console generation to the sixth." "Sega was" — Three of the first four sentences begin with "Sega", which makes for a repetitive read. "and produced arcade games" —> "and it produced arcade games". "console development as well as video game development and publishing" —> "developing and publishing video games and consoles". "Japanese-only" — "Japanese" suggests a language, culture or ethnicity. Use "Japan" if you want the geographic meaning. "After releasing several variations of this console in Japan, in 1985 Sega rebranded their third version of the SG-1000, the Sega Mark III, as the Master System and released it worldwide." —> "Sega released several variations of this console in Japan, the third of which, the Sega Mark III, was rebranded as the Master System and released worldwide in 1985." A rewrite: "They went on to produce the Sega Genesis and its add-ons many variations and expansions beginning in 1988, the Sega Game Gear as their first handheld console in 1990, the Sega Saturn in 1994, and the Dreamcast in 1998." A rewrite: "Since then, As a result, Sega ceased to manufacture consoles and has focused on providing software as became a third-party video game developer, exiting mainstream console manufacturing completely." "In addition to the consoles produced by Sega, numerous third-party console variations have been produced by other companies." — I don't understand what this means. Variations of which consoles? Isn't this a list of Sega consoles? "for the over 20-year-old consoles" — A bit awkward. However, since any reader who pays attention will realize this fact for themselves, it shouldn't be rephrased—just cut. "Played ROM cartridges" — Past tense? As an extant artifact, I'd assume that present tense would be standard. Is there a prior consensus for this tense, or is it just a mistake? Same applies to all past-tense references to present aspects (e.g. capabilities, game libraries, etc.) of these systems. "successful, due to" — Grammatically, "due to" is interchangeable with "caused by"; not "because of". Applies to all instances of "due to" in the article. "but was successful in Europe" — Successful at what? "after the SG-1000 and Master System, released worldwide" — This wants to read "[to be] released worldwide", but that doesn't square with what's written above it. Problem could be fixed by replacing the comma with a semicolon. "Handheld version of the console named the Sega Nomad that played the same cartridges released in 1995" — Reads "the console named the Sega Nomad" and "the same cartridges released in 1995". All instances of "internet" should be "Internet". "but did not have its own screen" — What does that mean? Don't most home consoles rely on external screens? "a built-in NetLink component codenamed Sega Pluto" — Is the component codenamed Sega Pluto? "Still being produced" — Source? That's it for now. I'll cover the Third-party variants section when I come back. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 04:02, 23 October 2014 (UTC) Grammar issues addressed. I guess I was using past tense on any console no longer in production, but you're right, the consoles still exist and still play cartridges, etc. I think the screen thing was to contrast it with the Beena, which does include a screen (though it still plugs into the TV as well), but once the two consoles stopped being the in the same row it became an odd tangent As to the source... I can't prove a negative? Sega toys still has a support page up for it, ([2]) and there hasn't been an announcement that it was discontinued. --PresN 18:57, 23 October 2014 (UTC) Also, it's still for sale on Amazon.co.jp by Sega Toys- [3]. The "One left" message is because they're in contract negotiations with Amazon, thus the "we recommend you buy these other things" banner at the top of the page. (source- I may or may not have written code for that type of banner.) --PresN 19:19, 23 October 2014 (UTC) That's good enough for me. Final prose comments below. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 21:05, 23 October 2014 (UTC) "In addition to the consoles developed by Sega itself, there have been numerous variations produced by other companies both under license and not. The Master System is the earliest Sega console to have third-party versions." —> "Licensed and unlicensed variants of Sega consoles have been produced by third-party companies." The line about the Master System just confuses readers—I had to do a doubletake lower down, when it said that the Genesis was the first Sega console with third-party variants. A rewrite: "In Brazil, Tectoy created and released made a variation in Brazil known as the Master System 3 Compact, which was capable of functioning wirelessly with an RF transmitter,. An SKU of this console targeted at while they also sought to appeal to female gamers, in Brazil with the Master System Girl, which was molded in bright pink plastic." "under several brands including Coleco in 2006" — I don't understand. Is this another Brazilian system? If it was released under several brands, then who developed it? And why single out Coleco? "The Pioneer LaserActive, which could play LaserDiscs and compact discs, had an add-on named the Mega-LD pack, developed by Sega, in order to play Genesis and Sega CD games." — This doesn't seem relevant to a list of Sega video game consoles. "added the Mega Drive to personal computers" — Shouldn't it be called the Genesis? Ditto for all instances of "Mega Drive" in this section. "Majesco Entertainment released the Genesis 3 as a budget version of the console in 1998" — Where was it released? "Tec Toy" — Standardize the company's name as either "Tectoy" or "Tec Toy". "Another version of the console called 'Mega Drive Guitar Idol'" — Release date, region, publisher? "games, and a handheld console" —> "games; and a handheld console". "AtGames began producing" — Region? That should be it. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 21:05, 23 October 2014 (UTC) @JimmyBlackwing: Grammar issues fixed Yeah, that "earliest" line was confusing, and I can't think of a way to get the information across without it being a mess. Added release regions and dates to the variants that were missing them The LaserActive had an addon that let you play Genesis/Sega CD games, essentially turning it into a console, which makes it to me as relevant as the other "Genesis-in-a-combo-box" releases, like the TeraDrive knockoffs. --PresN 18:03, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

Support: Looks good to me. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 21:22, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

• Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{featured list candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:17, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.