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Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Major League Baseball players with 300 career stolen bases/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was not promoted by Crisco 1492 07:23, 20 April 2014 (UTC) [1].[reply]

List of Major League Baseball players with 300 career stolen bases edit

List of Major League Baseball players with 300 career stolen bases (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Sportsguy17 (T • C) 00:30, 5 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list because I have worked really hard to expand the article to this status. It meets all criteria described in WP:WIAFL. The only things that may be of concern is a) the recent content dispute (now resolved through consensus) and b) the statistics may change during the season, but only for the few players on this list who are active and for this type of list, it does not majorly affect the status of the list (see for example List of Major League Baseball players with 100 triples). Thanks for your consideration of this FLC. Sportsguy17 (T • C) 00:30, 5 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comments / Suggestions
  • The caption in the lead image doesn't need a period, as it isn't a full sentence
  • Why is "stolen bases" italicized? I don't think it needs to be.
  • "delivering the ball" - this sounds a little funny.. "throwing the ball" would probably sound better.. or anything else that doesn't make it sound like he's dropping it off like a pizza at someone's front door
  • "than on the home run." --> "than on home runs"
  • "Rickey Henderson holds the MLB career stolen base record with 1,406, and is the only player in MLB history with more than 1,000 stolen bases." - a few repetitive phrases.. MLB and stolen bases are repeated twice and if that could be avoided, it would read a little nicer. Perhaps, "Rickey Henderson holds the MLB career stolen base record with 1,406, and is the only player in the league's history with more than 1,000."
  • "Juan Pierre is the current active leader with 614 stolen bases. Pierre is also the only currently active player to have more than 500 stolen bases." --> "Juan Pierre is the current active leader with 614 stolen bases; he is also the only currently active player to have more than 500 stolen bases."
  • The table needs a caption (see MOS:DTT)
  • For the members of the hall of fame, perhaps you could add a color in addition to the symbol, to make it stand out and not blend in with the other text.*
  • The image caption "Ty Cobb steals third base during a game on July 23, 1910." - this is a very awkward sentence.. perhaps change "steals" to "stealing" and remove the period at the end
  • See also section in alphabetical order would be nice
  • The alt text on the images (not including the lead image) should be more descriptive. Instead of repeating the image caption in a shorter version, it should describe what the reader would see in the image. So instead of "Person X doing Y" it should say something along the lines of "Person X wearing a baseball uniform standing in the outfield looking towards centerfield."
  • My biggest issue with the list is that all four columns are right next to each other. I believe this is a good way to save space, but I think having the entire list in one long column would look better and be less confusing. Though I'd be interest to know if this has already been discussed... and if not, what other editors think about it. In English, we tend to leave from top to bottom and left to right. So my eyes went straight from #1 to #41 to #81 and so on.
  • Regardless of if this change is made, the players names should be in a highlighted cell. The change would be made by changing "| Rickey Henderson" to "! Rickey Henderson"
  • Scope cols and rows should be added to the formatting per MOS:ACCESS, I believe.

Some of these comments are suggestions, and if you feel the suggested change isn't necessary or beneficial, feel free to skip past it but please just let me know why. :) Gloss • talk 04:27, 5 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

  • Also, it's usually best to have the statistics updated through the previous season. And at the end of this season, the numbers could be updated again. So I think it'd be best if you removed the "2014 SBs" - it's best to not have information on the page that needs to be updated daily. It's like how we generally don't add players stats to their biographies until the end of the season. Gloss • talk 13:27, 5 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have fixed everything @Gloss:. I plan to add a few more images to the main stack and fix the alternate captions, but otherwise this is good to go. Sportsguy17 (T • C) 00:56, 6 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • More images would help. And to go off of Bagumba's comment about the bolded names... you didn't get to the scope cols and rows. This is what needs to be added to every row. Gloss • talk 02:09, 6 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • You also missed one more comment, about the table captions. I crossed out everything completed. Gloss • talk 02:11, 6 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • All has been fixed now with regards to your comments. Sportsguy17 (T • C) 16:20, 8 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • You still haven't gotten to the two comments above? I crossed out everything you did do, and there are still things not done. The table caption... scope cols and rows.. Gloss • talk 18:38, 8 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose a few issues remain from my comments and I do share some of the concerns from the comments below. I also have concerns over a featured list being one that is updated daily as statistics from 2014 are added throughout the season. Gloss • talk 22:59, 22 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Additional comments: In the # column, instead of having blank cells when multiple players share a spot, add rowspans. Gloss • talk 18:41, 8 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Also, if you're going to have the table sortable, the names in the table will all have to be put into a sortname template: For example {{sortname|First|Last}} and if the name of their article is something other than simply their first and last name, do {{sortname|First|Last|Article name}}
  • The numbers will all need to be put into a sort template: See Template:Sort. Gloss • talk 18:46, 8 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Could you do that? You seem to know how to do it, whereas I do not know how. Sportsguy17 (T • C) 01:03, 9 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Well given this is your nomination, what better time to learn how? Check out Template:Sort and Template:Sortname - I promise, it's not too hard. The rowspans, I'll take care of, as that doesn't take too much time. Gloss • talk 01:23, 9 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Comments from Bagumba
  1. The lead notes players in the dead-ball era had more stolen bases, but the list doesn't show the years a player was active, like in 3,000 hit club.
  2. Unlike existing Baseball FL's, this cutoff here of 300 SBs seems a bit arbitrary. While there was an improvement to pare it from top-500 players to players with 300 SBs, I'm not comfortable with making this an FL yet. I'm sure a SB leader list is notable, just not convinced it's 300 SBs. Tangible improvements can be made in the lead of the article. The text is cited with sources that do not even discuss players with 300 SBs. I'd be more convinced this grouping was notable and meets WP:LISTN if the lead had more information about the group from prose in WP:SECONDARY sources, not from stats sites which are more like WP:PRIMARY sources.
  3. The current version unnecessarily bolds the name of each player, even though it says only active players are in bold.

—Bagumba (talk) 01:43, 6 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

  1. Number 3 has been fixed. Number 2, well is complicated. Then you have to question other featured lists like 100 triples. Why not 250 or 300? Arguments could be made in too many directions about that. With number 1, not all FL's have that and it would certainly be a lot of work (it's why individual refs may have helped) to add all of the years, etc. Other than that, this FLC should be FL material, I think. Sportsguy17 (T • C) 16:20, 8 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    For No. 2, We are not reviewing the 100 triples article here. In any event, WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is not the strongest of arguments. I would expect the cutoff in any stats listing to be notable, especially for an FL, and enough significant coverage in sources about that cutoff to use directly to write a paragraph or a few sentences about the group. For No. 1, there is WP:NODEADLINE, so the fact that "a lot of work" is required is not a reason to not include it. Other career baseball FLs like 300 win club, 500 home run club, 3,000 strikeout club, etc. also include the span of players' careers.—Bagumba (talk) 20:06, 8 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    OK, I found a few additional external sources and what not that again re-emphasizes its notability. Another example is the 300-300 club on Baseball Reference. I will get to the years stuff in the next week or so. Otherwise, if any concerns remain beyond that, let me know. Thanks. Sportsguy17 (T • C) 01:03, 9 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    B-R bullpen is another wiki, so wouldnt be a reliable source.—Bagumba (talk) 02:42, 9 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Not seeing progress. 300 is an arbitrary cutoff. WP:LISTN should be demonstrated with prose from WP:SECONDARY sources, not from stats sites which are more like WP:PRIMARY sources.—Bagumba (talk) 07:23, 23 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I am making progress; slowly, but I am. RL has kept me busy, but I am making improvements. I can go find more secondary sources, but a lot of sources/leaderboards (primary and secondary) use 300 stolen bases as a board, so saying it's arbitrary is debatable. And with sources, again, I'll go find some. Thanks. Sportsguy17 (T • C) 20:44, 23 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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