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Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Major League Baseball earned run average champions/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Gimmetrow 18:26, 16 March 2010 [1].

List of Major League Baseball earned run average champions edit

List of Major League Baseball earned run average champions (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Nominator(s): KV5 (Talk • Phils) 20:47, 17 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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I can just hear the groans... because another MLB featured topic is soon to be forthcoming. This is the first list in the set. Trust us, this one's not as huge (seven lists only, and shouldn't have any last-minute rush jobs). Cheers! KV5 (Talk • Phils) 20:47, 17 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 20:35, 22 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comments (and they'll be picky, but there you go...)
  • Call me picky, yes, I know but the phrase "ERA" appears 21 times in the lead. And a quick "blurred" look at the lead shows this is quite repetitive (screw your eyes up a bit and see how many patterns like ERA you can see). Any way at all this could be reduced? maybe just use "average" instead of ERA on a few occasions?
  • "Average" is a bad choice because it usually refers to batting average (usually abbreviated AVG). I would actually prefer that many of these are expanded to the full "earned run average" instead but I know that will be frowned upon by a lot of reviewers (why, I don't know). KV5 (Talk • Phils) 19:28, 22 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "of 1.82 is the best mark in the history " perhaps USEng, but I'd prefer "of 1.82 is the lowest in the history"?
  • Walsh's career ERA doesn't appear to be specifically referenced.
  • Forgive my ignorance, but what's the inclusion criteria for "Other major leagues"?
  • Non-minor professional leagues as defined by the second general reference. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 19:26, 22 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • 1888 Seward vs King, I'm guessing there's a 2 instead of a 3 here?
  • Actually, I just missed one in a copy-and-paste; changed the leader to 1.63 per the source. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 19:26, 22 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Babe Ruth's caption mentions a change of position - is this referenced?
  • In fact, could you check the claims in all captions are referenced? I wasn't sure where Joe Wood, for instance, was "one of thirteen pitchers who have won 30 games in a single season."
  • All caption concerns above should be fixed. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 19:26, 22 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent list though. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:41, 22 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thanks. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 19:26, 22 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is there a suitable link for walk here for non-baseball readers?
  • A walk is just another name for a "base on balls"; they are the same thing. If you prefer, I can pipe both terms to the same article. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 19:26, 22 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – For the Al Spaulding image, there is no proof that the image was published before 1923, not merely created; the PD status of the photo depends upon this fact. Clicking the link provided leads to a dead Baseball Hall of Fame page. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 00:23, 1 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • All player pages at the Hall of Fame are down because they are re-designing their site and have been for several months now. I'll comment out the image for now, but that page should be able to establish the viability of that image when the site is back up. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 00:29, 1 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Fantastic fix, Stax, I'll get that uploaded and such ASAP. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 01:04, 2 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – That photo issue was the only one I found when reading the list, and it's now resolved. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 22:04, 8 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Staxringold talkcontribs 23:12, 8 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
  • Although it has never occured it is mathematically possible for two players to perfectly tie for the ERA lead. As such I would change the lead sentence to read "the league recognizes the player with the lowest earned run average" or something like that to remove the definite statement of one champion per league since that's not cited by anything. It's not a de jure rule, merely a de facto truth given the unlikliness of an ERA tie.
  • Abbreviate the leagues, perhaps, since you use the two league titles many times. Don't have to replace every instance, but would allow the prose to vary more.
  • I agree, and would love to do so, but there are some editors/reviewers who would insist that the abbreviation be used every single time, which is why I choose not to use them (mentioned to TRM above, I believe). KV5 (Talk • Phils) 01:04, 2 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • You already specifically note that what matters is that the runner reached base against the pitcher, but is it worth adding another short sentence to make it clear for the less baseball-knowledgable that they can score once the pitcher has been relieved?
  • I would change "count against the pitcher's ERA" to simply "count towards...".
  • Should the qualifying requirements be mentioned, as per Rule 10.22b? As with McGwire and home runs there is an easy modern example, CC Sabathia did not lead the National League in ERA despite posting a 1.65 ERA because he only pitched 130.2 National League innings. Staxringold talkcontribs 22:19, 1 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • What about this? I think it needs mentioning. Also, I've said on the HR list I would include some measurement of playing time, so two things. First, should probably be done here as well. Second, should we do simply games or at-bats/innings pitched? Staxringold talkcontribs 01:14, 2 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I really don't think it's necessary. With all of the information that's already in these lists, if a reader really wants that information, it's available at B-Ref. I don't want us to push the WP:INDISCRIMINATE boundaries. Qualifying stats are done. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 01:25, 2 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Dabs; please check the disambiguation links identified in the toolbox. Dabomb87 (talk) 00:22, 11 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Searched, found, and destroyed. I blame Stax. :-) KV5 (Talk • Phils) 12:43, 11 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support -- another great list by the baseball wiz KV5 :) Nice work, I found no issues.--Truco 503 03:37, 13 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 00:30, 16 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)
Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)
  • "Major League Baseball recognizes the player in each league[a] with the lowest earned run average each season." I feel that this statement should come after the general explanation of ERA, perhaps in the beginning of the second paragraph.
  • If Baseball-Reference gives the statistics rounded to two decimal places, what is the source for the three-decimal-place stats in the case of Lemon, Scarborough, Anderson and Higuera?
  • The math formula: any reason why all of the words are capitalized ("Earned Runs Allowed" and "Innings Pitched")? I don't think those are proper nouns, so I doubt they need to be uppercase.
  • What makes http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/is-it-the-nl-al-hall-of-fame-or/ a reliable source?
  • "currently 162 innings/162 games" Two things: 1) "currently" is vague and dates easily (as of when?); 2) slashes are generally deprecated in prose (see MOS:SLASH), the word "per" would work better here. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:47, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Have done the first, third, and fifth comments. The second was calculated from their individual pages at Baseball-Reference, a routine calculation as per WP:OR#Routine calculations. The fourth, I can't particularly answer, as I didn't add it. Perhaps Staxringold can provide more information? KV5 (Talk • Phils) 23:53, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • They are a highly notable source within the field staffed by experts who put out an annual print publication. Staxringold talkcontribs 00:19, 16 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • However this Baseball-Reference page follows what many others say that the National Association was not a Major League. I'm going to remove and resource the HR list per this page (from our regular source) which agrees with most other things I can find. I'd suggest KV5 do the same, but I'll leave that to him. Staxringold talkcontribs 00:23, 16 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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