Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Trevor Linden

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted 17:48, 22 May 2008.

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Trevor Linden

While Kaiser matias, and I'm more of an assistant-type editor, we've agreed on starting the FAC process. Linden has near-divine status in British Columbia because of his long career with the Vancouver Canucks. While he has never won the Stanley Cup, he has set numerous records with Canucks' franchise and has been, since he was drafted second overall in 1988, the Canucks' leader, even although he has no worn the captain's C since 1998, when he was traded from Vancouver. Linden rejoined the team in 2001, and while he played the most recent season, he has most likely retired. As for the article itself, the state looks good, I've checked all the tools in the box in the upper right hand corner, and all looks fine, too. Maxim_(talk) 13:45, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

As a co-nominator, I'll add my piece here. Like stated, Linden is seen as a god in Vancouver, and all of British Columbia. I've spent the last few months greatly expanding the article, and at the urging of Maxim, decided to forgo the GA process and dive straight into here. Kaiser matias (talk) 19:55, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Issues resolved --Maxim_(talk) 01:47, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

• Oppose. Still some spelling/grammar issues:

• "Since joining the league in 1988, he has played with four different teams, the Vancouver Canucks (in two stints), New York Islanders, Montreal Canadiens, and Washington Capitals". Should be a colon, not a comma
• WHL needs to be defined when introduced
• "Throughout his career, Linden has been recognized as a respected leader both on and off the ice". "Both" is redundant
• "a position he would hold for eight years". Should be "a position he held"
• "Trevor was a skilled athlete, playing sports such as baseball, golf, volleyball, basketball and speed skating, other than hockey, which his was most important sport." Can we reword that to make it less awkward?
• "After one season playing with Medicine Hat Midget Tigers team in the Alberta Midget Hockey League (AMHL), Linden joined the junior Tigers". Change this to "After one season playing with Medicine Hat Midget Tigers of the Alberta Midget Hockey League (AMHL), Linden joined the WHL Tigers"
• "incluidng 2 goals in the championship game". Typo.
• Is it possible to touch up Image:Trevor_Linden_draft_photo_1988.JPG? It's extremely dark.
• "a month, less a day, later," remove this
• "Linden tied for the Canucks lead in goals with 30, the first Canucks rookie to reach that milestone, and was second on the team with 59 points in his rookie season." Try "Linden finished the season tied for the team lead in goals (30) and second for assists (59). He was the first Canucks rookie to score 30 goals."
• "in voting for the Calder Trophy, given to the rookie of the year," Typo (should be a period)
• "and Linden scored seven points in the Canucks seven-game series loss". Should be "Canucks'" (possessive apostrophe)
• "In the playoffs, although they were seeded seventh". Change this to "Although they were the seventh seed in the playoffs"
• "Playing the New York Rangers". Already linked earlier in the section
• "Linden went up against Rangers captain Mark Messier and led the Canucks to a game 7 scoring twice in the final and decisive game, only to have the Rangers win by a final of 3-2." Change this to "Linden went up against Rangers captain Mark Messier and led the Canucks to a game 7, where he scored twice, despite losing 3-2"
• "In the 49 games played over the year, he scored 9 goals and 31 assists". Try "In his 49 games that season..."
• "AT the conclusion of the season, Linden's contributions to the Vancouver community were recognized by the NHL when he was awarded the King Clancy Memorial Trophy." Typo. Also, change it to "At the conclusion of the season, the NHL recognized Linden's contributions to the Vancouver community and awarded him the King Clancy Memorial Trophy."
• "At the start of the 1997–98 season, with the addition of free agent Mark Messier, a six-time Stanley Cup winner, Linden gave up his captaincy. The arrival of Messier and the hiring of Mike Keenan, who coached the Rangers to the Stanley Cup over the Canucks in 1994, early through the season created friction between Linden and Keenan." Awkward. Try "At the start of the 1997–98 season, the Canucks added free agent Mark Messier, a six-time Stanley Cup winner, and coach Mike Keenan. Both were with the Rangers when they defeated Vancouver in 1994. Friction between Linden and Keenan developed early in the season."
• "The situation, perhaps, was brought to a peak after a 5-1 loss to the St. Louis Blues, the team Keenan coached before joining the Canucks. Keenan openly blamed the loss on Linden in front of the team, a moment Linden refers to as his "darkest time"." Try "After a 5-1 loss to the St. Louis Blues, the team Keenan coached before joining the Canucks, Keenan openly blamed Linden for the loss, a moment Linden refers to as his "darkest time". (This one was tough to phrase, if you have something better, throw it out there)
• "the Islanders 3rd round choice". Should be "the Islanders' third round choice"
• "With Washington, Linden reached the playoffs for the first time in four years in 2001, and the only time with the Capitals." Get rid of "and the only time with the Capitals"
• "After only 28 games with the Capitals spread over parts of two seasons, scoring only 3 goals and 4 assists, Linden was traded back to the Canucks. In exchange for Vancouver's first-round choice in the 2002 NHL Entry Draft (Boyd Gordon) and a third-round choice in the 2003 NHL Entry Draft, Linden went along with a second-round choice in either the 2002 or 2003 drafts on November 10, 2001.". Change this to "After 48 games over two season with the Capitals, Linden scored only three goals and four assists. On November 10, 2001, the Capitals traded Linden and a second round draft pick in either 2002 or 2003 to the Canucks for their first round pick in 2002 (Boyd Gordon) and a third round pick in 2003."
• "The ceremony was delayed on request by Linden, who didn't want to distract the team from the playoff race at hand." Try "Because he did not want to distract the team from the playoff race, Linden asked for the ceremony to be delayed."
• "A few weeks later on March 8". Try "On March 8..."
• "new CBA negotiations". Define "CBA"
• "A late-season game against the San Jose Sharks on April 13, 2006, marked Linden's 1,000th game with the Canucks, making him the first player to do so." Try "Linden became the first player to play 1,000 games with the Canucks on April 13, 2006 when they faced the San Jose Sharks."
• "Notably, it was Linden's sixth game seven goal of his playoff career". You should make that "game-seven" to avoid confusion
• "The season would not go ideally for Linden, who was a healthy scratch 23 times." Try "The season was not ideal for Linden, who was a healthy scratch 23 times."
• "In March 2008, Linden was selected as the Canucks nominee for the Bill Masterton Trophy,[40] given to the player who best exemplifies the qualities of perseverance, sportsmanship, and dedication to hockey, by the Vancouver chapter of the Professional Hockey Writers' Association, the group that selects the winner". Try "In March 2008, the Vancouver chapter of the Professional Hockey Writers' Association selected Linden as the Canucks nominee for the Bill Masterton Trophy..."
• "Jamie played 4 games with the" Should be "Jamie played four games"
• "in an attempt save the NHL season from being lost" Try "in an attempt avoid losing the NHL season"
• "with Linden admitting that he was unable to sleep the night before his first game back, due to excitement Try "with Linden admitting that he was too excited to sleep the night before his first game back."
• "On April 5th, 2008, the Canucks final game of the 2007–08 season, Linden was given a standing ovation before the start of the third period by the Vancouver crowd". Should be "On April 5th, 2008, the Canucks' final game of the 2007–08 season, the Vancouver crowd gave Linden a standing ovation before the start of the third period"
• "His first appearance on the world stage was" should be "He first appeared on the world stage"
• "His first senior international tournament was the 1991 World Championship, in which Linden contributed one goal and four assists in ten games, as Canada won the silver medal" should be "His first senior international tournament was the 1991 World Championship, in which he contributed one goal and four assists in ten games as Canada won the silver medal."
• "Scoring 1 goal and 4 assists, identical totals to that of his previous World Championship tournament, Canada would finish fifth" should be "He scored one goal and four assists as Canada finished fifth"

That's all I've got. Let me know when you're done.-Wafulz (talk) 15:46, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Fixed. Maxim_(talk) 19:09, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll check it out tonight.-Wafulz (talk) 19:20, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Oppose - Sorry, but I'm finding a lot of issues early in the article.

• Lead: Do the consecutive Memorial Cup titles need a reference here? Both are cited later.
  • It doesn't hurt. And also, for purely editing purposes, the lead has all the long book cites so you can you use a contracted form later. :-p
• "Linden was member of the 1998 Canadian Olympic team" This should be "a member".
  • Fixed.
• "Linden led the team to within two goals of winning the Stanley Cup in 1994." This seems unusual. It's more common to say "within one game".
  • Fixed.
• Move the citation for Linden being named NHLPA president to the appropriate section.
  • Fixed.
• The citation on him negotiating with NHL owners is repeated later. Is placing it in the lead really necessary?
  • See above.
• Define and link NHLPA.
  • Fixed.
• "humanitarian contribution" Should this be contributions?
  • Fixed.
• Early life, second sentence: Comma after basketball? This is nit-picky, but this would match the list of teams Linden played for in the lead. One or the other should be changed.
  • Fixed.
• "An excellent student through school" Through school seems awkward. In school seems like what you're going for.
  • Fixed.
• "with Medicine Hat Midget Tigers" With "the".
  • Fixed.

Giants2008 (talk) 23:09, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

• • I can take another stab at thorough copyedit. I do, at times, forget to fix jargon/CAPITAL gbbrsh so a second look over probably wouldn't hurt. Thanks, Maxim_(talk) 23:26, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Let me add a couple quick reference notes

• Current ref 52 has a formatting error. I think you placed a slash instead of a pipe.
  • Fixed. Thanks. :-)
• I happen to own the American version of NHL Hockey: The Official Fans' Guide (current ref 20), and the page number is different in mine. The 1994 Finals are on page 106 in my version. If it's different in the Canadian version. that's fine. Double-checking the page number wouldn't hurt, though. Giants2008 (talk) 23:24, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
  • I have no clue, Kaiser matias has the book, while I don't... probably there's a difference in the versions. Maxim_(talk) 23:31, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
    • You're right in regards to the page number. I simply added the total number of pages of the book when adding the reference, as is the case for the other print sources. If it's an issue, I can fix that all up. Kaiser matias (talk) 01:26, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
      • When WP:CITE states that page numbers should be given, I do believe they mean specific numbers. I recommend changing them if possible. Giants2008 (talk) 20:30, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
        • What is the source for the career stats section, and page number issues needs to be sorted. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:47, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
          • Both have been fixed. Maxim_(talk) 01:03, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Does the career stats need a reference listed with it? After all, the source is listed, in the External links section, stating that it is the career stats for Linden. Kaiser matias (talk) 18:59, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
    • Please read WP:GTL: if a site is used as a source, it doesn't belong in External links. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:44, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
      • Understand now. Added a better reference that is more in depth. Kaiser matias (talk) 18:13, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Issues resolved Giants2008 (talk) 18:01, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm back with more issues.

• "earning a goal". Earning seems unusual in this sense. Is there a different term that could be used?
  • Fixed.
• Hyphen for full time.
  • Fixed.
• 7 seconds should be seven seconds.
  • Fixed.
• In the last sentence of Early life, the top two draft picks are handled in a repetitive way. Some variation would be nice.
  • Fixed. First overall is a redundancy.;-)
• NHL career, Vancouver Canucks: Current ref 14 is not after punctuation.
  • Fixed.
• "The Canucks made the playoffs in 1988-89 season" Either add the or remove season.
  • Fixed.
• "eventual Stanley Cup champions" In this form, the last word should be singular.
  • Fixed.
• Typo: Cancucks.
  • Fixed.
• Linden again scored at least 30 goals, with 32, the fifth time in six seasons,". I like this: "Linden scored 32 goals, the fifth time in six seasons he had scored at least 30,".
  • Fixed.
• Game seven of 1994, while bringing back great memories for this Rangers fan, has a few problems. First, 7 should be spelled out. He didn't lose the game, his team did. There is also a missing period.
  • Fixed.
• 2007 should not be linked by itself.
  • Fixed.
• 9 goals in 1995-96 is another number issue.
  • Fixed.
• The first half of the last paragraph of the section looks bad. It appears you were making a change but forgot to delete the old text. This is what's there now: "At the start of the 1997-98 season, the Canucks added free agent Mark Messier, a six-time Stanley Cup winner, and coach Mike Keenan. Both were with the Rangers when they defeated Vancouver in 1994. Friction between Linden and Keenan developed early in the season. The arrival of Messier and the hiring of Mike Keenan, who coached the Rangers to the Stanley Cup over the Canucks in 1994, early through the season created friction between Linden and Keenan. For what it's worth, I prefer the first version.
• 7 goals. I have to ask, is this how you want it? If so, some earlier single-digit numbers are spelled out.
  • Fixed.

I was hoping to drop my oppose after a second look, but I still maintain that the article needs a thorough copy-edit. Giants2008 (talk) 20:30, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

• • I haven't re-copyedited it yet, I was waiting for your response.;-) I will go through this new list of issues and take another stab at copyediting, likely tomorrow, as I don't have time now. (Just posting so you know I saw this post and will fix stuff.;-) Maxim_(talk) 23:32, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
    • I've fixed everything in the list; I'm going to do a more thorough copyedit now. Maxim_(talk) 12:15, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
• I've attempted a more thorough copyedit as well. --Maxim_(talk) 13:02, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

• When you fixed ref 14, a space was created before ref 15.

• Fixed.

• I'm waffling on the seventh game thing, as it would officially be called Game 7, but it may not work well with the sentence. After another look, this may be better: "and led the Canucks to a seventh and deciding game. Despite two goals by Linden, the Canucks lost, 3–2." It also breaks up a long sentence. My apologies on this one.

• Fixed.

• You didn't fix the start of 1997–98, the most serious issue I found last time.

• Fixed.

• New York, Montreal and Washington: Link 2000-2001 NHL season

• Support. With this laundry list of fixes complete, I'm now ready to Support. I think it's ready now. Thanks for putting up with me. Giants2008 (talk) 18:01, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Comments

• What makes the following reliable sources?
  • http://www.medicinehat.ca/City%20Government/Departments/City%20Clerk/Wall%20of%20Fame/Trevor%20Linden.asp
  • http://www.canadiancyclist.com/default2.html

Otherwise sources look okay. Still on the road, so didn't check links. Ealdgyth - Talk 03:08, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

medicinehat.ca is Medicine Hat's website....-Wafulz (talk) 03:11, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

I gathered that, but what makes a city's hall of fame page reliable for biographical details on a living person? I'm not saying that it is necessarily unreliable, but it's not a normal source to be using for biographical details. Ealdgyth - Talk 03:18, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Looking at the background section detailing the city Wall of Fame, it says that to nominate a candidate, background information was supplied, and then a member of City Hall interviewd the individual candidates.

As for the second source, not being the one adding it, I haven't a clue about it. Kaiser matias (talk) 05:49, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

We should nix that second source. It's got way too much advertising and doesn't look reliable.-Wafulz (talk) 14:04, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

• Support. Looks like it meets the criteria to me now.-Wafulz (talk) 19:27, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
• Support. I went through and fixed a couple minor issues (spacing, duplicate links), and centred the text in the career stats tables. Well written article, and complete. But god those 1980s Canucks jerseys were horrible... Resolute 16:38, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Comments: For now, I'll stick to just stating the problems I found:

• The Order of British Columbia should be put out in it's proper name

• Please look at other article of winners of things like the Order of Canada, Order of British Columbia. The guideline is to leave it as John Doe, OC, born ...

• Maybe when you mention his father, Lane, it should be right away mentioned who he was, not in the next sentence.

• Fixed.

• And mentioning that his father also had a cattle farm seems rather unimportant.

• Fixed.

• Mentioning the other rookie to score 30 goals would be helpful, in Vancouver Canucks, 1988-1998 I think that would be Pavel Bure.

• I don't get this comment.

• Switch info about his assists and points in his sophomore year.

• Don't understand you...

• I read in the lead that he was made captain at 20, then later in this section at 21; which is it?

• Damn. There's a bad source, I've removed it; I checked at least 5 others and they all said 21.

• Division Title, not win, and mention which season.

• Done.

• In the New York, Montreal and Washington (1998–2001) section, it says, when traded to Washington,

...Going with Dainius Zubrus, and New Jersey's 2nd round choice...

It sounds better with, traded along with.

• It makes for plain, generic, thus boring prose. I think there should be some variation.

• Expand a bit on the 2000-01 playoff when Linden went with them to the playoffs for the first time in four years.

• I don't see anymore details that can be added. His team simply made the playoffs, and it was his first time in four years.

That's all I found so far.

Let me just say though I haven't been with the Canucks for more than six years, I have always found Linden to be one of the best Canuck player there is. I hope he'll stay for another season. --Sunsetsunrise (talk) 21:20, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.