Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Stanley Goble

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by User:SandyGeorgia 04:27, 6 January 2009 [1].

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Stanley Goble

Nominator(s): Ian Rose (talk)

Nominating this for FA because, naturally enough, I think it mets the criteria. However, for those who prefer something beyond the usual dry nomination spiel... From its inception in 1921 until the end of World War II, the history of the RAAF was often the story of two great rivalries at its highest echelons, between Richard Williams and Stanley Goble from 1921 to 1939, and between George Jones and William Bostock from 1942 to 1945. The "winners" in those two conflicts, Williams and Jones, are already the subjects of FAs; I’d like now to get the "runners-up" to the same level, starting off with this FAC for Stanley Goble, which is currently GA, and A-Class on the MILHIST project. Since passing ACR I’ve added further material and addressed one or two points raised in that review re. victories scored in World War I and sourcing for same. Any and all comments welcome. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 13:06, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

• Support. Don't see any big problems. ^Tezkag₇₂ 14:53, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

• Comments - sources look okay, couldn't check links as the toolserver's down. Ealdgyth - Talk 15:03, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Went back and checked links and http://www.airforce.gov.au/leaders/formerchiefs.htm deadlinks. Ealdgyth - Talk 15:32, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

• Yeah, they love changing that site - should work again now. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 21:21, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

• Support - I reviewed this article for GA, and since then it's quality has improved even further. I can see no areas of concern and am satisified that it safely meets the FA criteria. Cheers, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 00:04, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

• Support This is a great article which meets all the criteria. As a suggestion for further development, it may be worth expanding upon the factors which caused Goble to resign in 1940 - as it's fairly extraordinary that a senior officer would resign his command at the start of what was obviously going to be a long war, it would be interesting to flesh out his views on the EATS and his conflict with his deputy. Nick-D (talk) 00:48, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
  • Tks Nick - I will look into that. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk)
• Query Was the Caudron a Caudron G.4? ϢereSpielChequers 14:04, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
  • Heh, annoyingly the source doesn't say - I reckon it had to be a G.4 because I believe that's the only twin-engined model that would've been around at the time but without anything definite I've had to leave it as is. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 14:24, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

    Thought it might be something like that. If someone else has a source it would be nice to fix that, but probably not essential for the FA. ϢereSpielChequers 14:31, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

• Support: An excellent, well-written and well-constructed article. I have a few small prose quibbles:-
  • "as had been his father", though grammatically correct, reads rather quaintly. Perhaps consider rephrasing
    • Came up with something different
  • Reference to the "new Royal Ar Force" (in the WW1 section) should be to the "newly-formed Royal Air Force".
    • Done
  • "Whilst" (in the Chief of Air Staff subsection) is, for reasons that escape me, a disapproved wikipedia word and should be replaced by "while".
    • Done
  • In the Circumnavigation section, "they encountered storms and disease". Storms I can understand, on a long flight, but disease? Does this simply mean that one or both were ill during the flight? Some brief clarification would help.
    • Modified
  • Quotations: the wiki line on quotes is that direct quotations within quote marks should be used for "unique phrases" or for comments of a controversial nature. By this standard I don't think that "conspicuous bravery and skill" or "curb Williams's independence" qualify as unique or controversial phrases, and since both are cited, the quote marks could go.
    • I would've thought that if we don't rephrase something we need to use quotes even if it isn't controversial, and I'd prefer to keep "conspicuous bravery and skill" since it's straight from the DSO citation. Re. "curb Williams's independence", in my own words it'd be keep Williams in check or limit Williams' automony, either of which I'd be happy to substitute.

High-quality stuff, well done. Brianboulton (talk) 15:06, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

• Tks Brian. Will see about those in the next day or so (just back home after New Year's Eve revels so not in quite the right state to reword things at the moment)... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 15:31, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

• See above, tks again. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 02:09, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

• Support with a few comments.
• 'Goble came to national attention in 1924 when he and fellow RAAF pilot Ivor McIntyre became the first men to circumnavigate Australia by air, journeying some 13,500 km in a single-engined floatplane. - Is it possible to get a conversion to miles?
  • Done
• Goble died in 1948, at the age of fifty-six, two years after his retirement from the military. - Remove the comma after "1948".
  • Done
• Although himself forced down on two occasions, he had avoided any injury during his active service. - This sentence is slightly confusing.
  • Modified
• Prime Minister Stanley Bruce called the expedition "one of the most wonderful accomplishments in the history of aviation", his government presenting Goble with a gift of ₤500, and ₤250 to McIntyre. - The comma after "aviation" should be a semicolon.
  • I'd agree with a semi-colon if it read "his government presented" but with "presenting" I think the comma is correct. Happy to change to "his government presented" with a semi-colon if you'd prefer.

–Juliancolton ^{Tropical Cyclone} 17:05, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

• Many tks for your comments. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 02:09, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

• Support with comment.
• Goble's wife and children are first mentioned in "Retirement and Legacy" section. I think this is OK but it would be better if that info was also found in the Lead and Reader was made aware of when he got married, maybe somewhere in the body of the article. A man's personal life is an important part of who he is and I don't think it is OK to leave that to a sentence in the last section. NancyHeise ^talk 03:31, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
  • Tks Nancy. Actually, "He married Kathleen Wodehouse in London on Anzac Day, 1922" is already mentioned in the Chief of the Air Staff section, which I think should suffice. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 03:57, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

It's OK there, I just think there should be something in the lead about the man's personal life but since this is a matter of personal taste, not an FA criteria, I still support the article for FA. It is very well done. NancyHeise ^talk 00:40, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

• Support YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 04:58, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
• Image review: All images are taken from the Australian War Memorial and are in the public domain due to their creation more than 50 years ago as government owned photographs. All information has been properly filled and page links have been provided. Jappalang (talk) 08:19, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

• Thanks for your efforts tidying up some of those image files, Jappalong. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 08:23, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
  • I also checked the images at the request of one user, they are all correct. On the source pages, the images copyright holder and copyright term is the following: "Copyright: Copyright expired - public domain, Copyright holder: Copyright Expired." User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 09:05, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.