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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Pavo (constellation)/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by GrahamColm 10:02, 5 October 2013 (UTC) [1].[reply]

Pavo (constellation) edit

Pavo (constellation) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 05:29, 9 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Another week another constellation. This one seemed to gel together okay (some of these are very tricky!). Anyway, not too big and I think I am getting the hang of these. So have at it. Cheers, Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 05:29, 9 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by 99of9 edit

  • "The constellation Pavo as it can be seen by the naked eye." If only God joined the dots and put a nice little label on it... I'd have a hope of recognizing the constellations! --99of9 (talk) 05:48, 9 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This is a WikiCup nomination. The following nominators are WikiCup participants: Casliber. To the nominator: if you do not intend to submit this article at the WikiCup, feel free to remove this notice. UcuchaBot (talk) 00:01, 10 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support: I've already reviewed this article and I believe it satisfies the FA criteria. Praemonitus (talk) 03:34, 10 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

thanks for that. copyedits ok Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 04:44, 10 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by GermanJoe edit

I did some minor CEs, a few additional suggestions to improve the article structure (done):

  • lead " ... in 1597 (or 1598)" (both in lead and main text) => the alternative date would look better in an explanatory footnote (it's not that vital for the constellation). Details, why the year is unclear, are missing (and could be added to the footnote).
This was added before I beagn editing the article. this book I read a few months ago sits on 1598, as does the web source. Many sources have 1600 but that might of been a globe, not the first globe. Major headache. All ones which say 1597 seem to be tertiary sources. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:50, 10 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • The first lead para is mostly a copy/paste from the first history para. Try to rephrase the lead a bit more or add a few other notable details.
tried a bit of each - how's that? Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 15:04, 10 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • history "The name of the brightest star Alpha Pavonis—Peacock—was assigned by Her Majesty's Nautical Almanac Office in the late 1930s; the RAF insisted that all bright stars must have names, the star hitherto having lacked a proper name.[4]" => all other single objects have their history, when available, in "notable features", for consistency i'd move Alpha's background info there aswell. So "history" would be only the history of the overall constellation.
Yeah, I was originally going to put it in the notable features section, then felt it might flow well with discussion on peacock name, but it can go back, so have moved it Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:23, 10 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • features "... Comet Levy,[45] P/1991 L3" => the Comet Levy article doesn't have this number, could you clarify? Why is the ref not at the end? Link "Comet Levy"´?
ref at end now. I think there are two Comet Levys (see David H. Levy - the wiki-page is on the one discovered in 2006, while it is the 1991 that is linked to the shower. I know little about comets and can see the other pages need sorting. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:48, 10 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Southern Birds" => is that an "official" name for this group of constellations in formal works or more of a nickname? The usage could be clarified a bit.
Good point. Not sure. I've always heard and called them that, but how official is it? I have no idea, hey are not contiguous so it is not a particularly definable area or anything. Will have more of a look Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:52, 10 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It is not an official designation, but more colloquial - but sees a fair amount of use. I guess it would be better in lower case and in quotations (?) See [2], [3], [4], [5] and [6] for example. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 04:27, 12 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Have added quote marks to indicate, that it's not a formal designation. GermanJoe (talk) 14:09, 14 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah I was warming to that idea Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 15:08, 14 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

A nice and comprehensive article, maybe a bit more polishing, but seems very close to FA. GermanJoe (talk) 08:15, 10 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support - made a few more copyedits (merged Alpha information and tweaked peacocks and meteor showers, diff: [7]). Nice work on yet another constellation (only 70-80 left for FA :) ). GermanJoe (talk) 07:36, 16 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Image review - Captions that aren't complete sentences shouldn't end in periods, but licensing is fine. Nikkimaria (talk) 05:15, 12 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

period removed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:25, 12 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments from Jim just a few niggles Jimfbleak - talk to me? 12:05, 14 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • The brightest member, Alpha Pavonis, is named Peacock—Well, it's actually named Alpha Pavonis—Also known as? Alternative name? RAF name (if it's only used in the UK)? Needs clarifying somehow.
AKA'ed Cas Liber (talk · contribs)`
  • catalog... honor... likely having—I didn't think you could see Pavo from LA (:
aussified - added "most" to "likely having" Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:16, 15 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • the constellation was meant to refer to the Green Peacock—So why is the link in the first line of the lead to Indian (Blue) Peacock?
aussified - this is tricky as the latin term as such referred to the blue...unless I reword teh lead to link it to the bird but not literally. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:16, 15 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hera (Juno) lusted after by Zeus (Jupiter). —Links for the god and goddess please. Why do we need the Roman equivalents when the story is from Greek mythology?
having Junonia Avis - to show why I guess...? Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:16, 15 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pavo is the radiant of an annual meteor shower: the Delta Pavonids. Appearing from 21 March to 8 April and generally peaking around 5 and 6 April, they...—Why a colon rather than a comma? Should it be it rather than they (shower is singular)?
I hate these bits - like grammatical hopscotch - something just too weird about "pavonids is" - so tinkered with it a bit..... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:20, 15 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Halley-type Comet Levy (P/1991 L3). —link for Halley's comet at least
linked Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:21, 15 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ridpath—just to check that self-published is acceptable for an RS source.
he is notable and much-published author. It is an online verson of a book anyway Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:16, 15 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
No further queries, supporting now Jimfbleak - talk to me? 05:38, 15 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Driveby comment This article seems interesting. Unfortunately, I can barely understand half of what is written. Without a Simple English equivalent (somewhat understandably), there's no hope of making sense of the subject for me. While I do not doubt this article will achieve FA status, I hope somebody down the track (it probably won't happen) will be able to write articles about constellations in such a way that an average Joe like me could understand :) --Sp33dyphil ©hatontributions 09:01, 16 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate your honesty Sp33dyphil - we (well, I do anyway) strive to make all our work as accessible as possible, but maintaining accuracy does trump that. However if there is anything at all I can possibly simplify then I will try and do that if accuracy is maintained. If you want to try and highlight anything specific, I will try and do what I can to simplify it - agree that this can be much more difficult in some articles than others.... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:37, 17 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comments (including source review) edit

  • I'll be back later with a literature check. Sasata (talk) 17:42, 21 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. I think the article meets the FA criteria (have left a few minor source nitpicks at the bottom). Sasata (talk) 03:20, 27 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "35-cm diameter" conversion? (twice)
imperial units added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 09:04, 23 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'd mention that Uranometria is a star atlas in the lead
added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 22:07, 21 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "and Tucana, are known as the "Southern Birds"." no comma
removed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 22:07, 21 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "appears as a 1.91 magnitude blue-white star" seems to me that there should be a hyphen here for the adjectival use of 1.1 magnitude; same for "third brightest globular cluster" and later "second brightest star in the constellation", "is a 3.95 magnitude white main sequence star", "third brightest globular cluster", "14th magnitude galaxy"
added hyphens Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 09:09, 23 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • link star system, spiral galaxy
linked Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 07:17, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • what was the year of the first Dutch trading expedition?
I now have a bluelink to First Dutch Expedition to Indonesia - bit worried that it might be overinclusive to have the dates of that...do you think bluelink sufficient? Else I can fetch source for dates Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 09:17, 23 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • link celestial atlas, classical mythology, Hera, Zeus, Hermes
italicised Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 18:25, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "are called the "Southern Birds"." add "collectively"?
added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 07:17, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Junonia Avis should be italicized
italicised Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 07:17, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "… have his way with her" idiomatic
coupled Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 07:17, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "made the peacock's tail ornaments with all of his eyes in his honour" unclear … the feather ornaments were made of eyes? The ornaments were made of eyes that were only in his honour?
changed verb to clarify Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 07:17, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Whose eyes ("his" – Argus?) were used?

clarified Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 07:17, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Although he depicted Pavo on his chart, Bayer did not assign its stars Bayer designations." any interesting (or mundane) reason for this?
Bayer normally assigned his stars designations - it is unusual for him to depict a constellation and not assign stars, and would have been because it was too far south for him to know the constellation's star accurately I think. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 07:17, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "American astronomer Benjamin Gould designated a star Xi Pavonis" year?
1879 - added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:24, 23 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • possibly useful links: Royal Air Force, Mercury, red dwarf, brown dwarf, supergiant, accretion disc, silicon dioxide, arcminute, Comet Grigg-Mellish, Comet Levy; Sun should be linked earlier
all bar comets done - not sure on notability of comets and there are two comet levys Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:07, 23 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Other nearby stars in Pavo are much fainter: SCR 1845-6357 is a binary system" according to the info box, this star is not in Pavo
you've lost me - which infobox? Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 18:55, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps I'm just misinterpreting the infobox; it says SCR 1845-6357 is the "closest star", which I interpret as meaning the closest star not actually within the constellation, but the article text says "nearby stars in Pavo". Sasata (talk) 21:55, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
aaah, no, infobox means in constellation Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:07, 23 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • the 1.94 apparent magnitude in the info box for Pavo is not mentioned in the article text
Good catch - the 1.94 comes from a 1978 ref - SIMBAD represents current consensus on that - changed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 18:30, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "that is only 19.9 light years distant" why "only", seems like quite aways to me
Not according to this list - it's pretty close really, so I think "only" is warranted... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:00, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "3.4 and 4.4, this variation" semi-colon works better here (otherwise is comma splice)
semi'ed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:00, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "years away from Earth, that resembles the Milky Way" no comma
removed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 07:17, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "A supernova was discovered in the galaxy in 2005." does it have a name (or is it IC 4662 discussed in the following sentence?)
no it'll be some obscure letter code prefixed by SN2005...will fetch and add. added now. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 07:42, 23 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • didn't the Chinese or Mesopotamians write about this constellation?
It is too far south for most and much of it is pretty faint - can't find anything from China apart from a modern translation since its naming as Pavo. Have looked in vain for any Sth African or Australian folklore Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:11, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • the Ridpaths web refs should perhaps indicate the work ("Ian Ridpath's Star Tales")
added but left out his name to reduce repetition Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 09:18, 23 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • book titles not consistently title case; journal article title format case inconsistent as well
title cased now Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:18, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • are author initials spaced (e.g. "Dupret, M. A.") or not (e.g. "Berens, E.M.)?
should be unspaced - tweaked spaced ones Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:21, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • page range format "635–642" vs. "231–32" (check throughout, other instances of inconsistent format as well)
should be last two digits only - tweaked offenders Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:21, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • niobium not capitalized; ref#24 is actually a footnote and should be converted to one; publisher location for Gray et al. (2009)?
location added- converted to footnote, niobium lowercased Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:22, 23 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • no issue# or page range for Santos et al. (2010)?
Some astronomy articles have a strange format - pages added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 09:01, 23 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • pub location for Mobberly (1999), Jenniskens (2006), and Levy (2008)
locations added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 18:21, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • what does "ESA" stand for in the Hubble website ref?
European Space Agency - unabbreviated now Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:02, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • several times throughout the article it says a star has a magnitude of x; I'm unsure (in those instances where it is not stated explicitly) whether this refers to apparent magnitude, or apparent visual magnitude
these are the same thing - and both are often abbreviated to just "magnitude" Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 07:17, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, I was confused by the fact that both apparent visual magnitude and apparent magnitude are linked in the text (in Notables features), but now I see one redirects to the other. Might want to fix that ... Sasata (talk) 21:55, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
fixed redirect Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:06, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • refs #23 and #24 appear to be exactly the same, although they lead to different pages
cut and paste error - fixed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 18:55, 26 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • should the SN of sn2005at be capitalized?
whoops, caps it is - fixed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 18:46, 26 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • is it worthwhile to mention any of the following (all from here):
  • the constellation occupies 0.916% of the night sky
yes/added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:16, 26 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • alpha Pavonis and its partner are in the Pleiades Group
this is tricky. I have not seen this mentioned elsewhere, and bagnall gets things wrong on occasion. Kaler doesn't mention it which is unusual...will omit and leave it as an item more specific for the Alpha Pavonis page to be verified at some point in the future. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:16, 26 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • that the reason the HMNAO gave the constellation a name was for publication in The Air Almanac, which contained 57 bright stars that pilots could help to navigate with; there's also a bit more about the etymology of Pavonis not included in the article
added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:30, 26 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • that delta Pavonis is the most likely to have an Earth-type plant in the habitable zone
sorta outdated as nothing has turned up yet really....alot of the interest was before the discovery of large numbers of exoplanets. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:24, 26 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • anything useful in this?
interesting...I am inclined to think "no" as I what they were doing was surveying a deep space field and trying to correlate the X ray and radio sources - could have been done anywhere in the sky really as you'd find similar things everywhere (i.e. the item of interest/study was correlation, not the fact that it was in Pavo) Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:19, 26 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • something wonky with ref #34; still have spaced initials in #13, #34, #37; publisher location for ref#4; publisher "self-published" (refs 1,2,3) or "self" (#46)?
got 'em all Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 06:47, 27 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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