Wikipedia

Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Máscara Dorada/archive1

< Wikipedia:Featured article candidates
The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was archived by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 20 April 2019 [1].

Máscara Dorada edit

Nominator(s): MPJ-DK (talk) 22:10, 22 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about a Mexican professional wrestler who has worked all over the world and is currently for the biggest wrestling company in the world. The article has been a Good Article for a while and I have been keeping up with improvements etc. over the years and I believe it is of Feature Article quality. I look forward to everyone's feedback and address any concerns that may be raised.` MPJ-DK (talk) 22:10, 22 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by ImmortalWizard edit

IMO, the best wrestling BLP in Wikipedia. He is my third favorite current Mexican star in WWE after Mysterio and Andrade. I will be giving my comments for the next few days. THE NEW ImmortalWizard(chat) 12:43, 23 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • It's a shame we don't have pages for wrestling top ropes or middle ropes. Readers could get confused in the section Wrestling style and persona. Also, in WWE I heard commentators calling him the "king of the ropes", I don't have any sources for that but probably that's worth mentioning?
  • I couldn't find that his name translates to "Golden Mask" in the source.
  • Not all the Japanese and Spanish source titles are translated. It would be beneficially to recruit native editors to do the work.
  • I will look for a source for the nickname. there isn't a need for a source to do simple Spanish to English translations IMO. And I thoght I had translated all, but I must have lost track of my checklist. They are all translated now. MPJ-DK (talk) 16:50, 23 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • In general, I would say there are issues with WP:PROSELINE, which could be prevented.
  • Can you provide a couple of examples that highlights this issue please? MPJ-DK (talk) 19:43, 23 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Here:
Examples
  • On January 22, 2011, Dorada lost the CMLL World Welterweight Championship to Ryusuke Taguchi at Fantastica Mania 2011, a CMLL and New Japan Pro Wrestling co–promoted event in Tokyo, Japan.[23] On February 25, 2011, Máscara Dorada and Atlantis defeated Blue Panther and Dragón Rojo Jr. in the finals to win the Torneo Nacional de Parejas Increibles for the second year in a row.[24] On April 7 Dorada vacated the CMLL World Super Lightweight Championship, stating that he was moving up to the middleweight division.[25] After Dorada returned from Japan with the CMLL World Welterweight Championship, La Generación Dorada lost the CMLL World Trios Championship to Los Hijos del Averno (Averno, Ephesto and Mephisto) on July 15, 2011.[26] On November 11, 2012, Dorada lost the CMLL World Welterweight Championship to Pólvora during CMLL's Sunday night event in Arena Mexico.[27]
  • On June 2, 2013, Dorada defeated Negro Casas to win the NWA World Historic Welterweight Championship for the first time.[28] On June 16, Dorada and his new Los Estetas del Aire ("Air Aesthetes") stable, formed with Místico and Valiente, won the CMLL World Trios Championship.[29] On November 19, Dorada lost the NWA World Historic Welterweight Championship to Volador Jr.[30] On March 28, 2014, Los Estetas del Aire also lost the CMLL World Trios Championship.[31]
  • On January 2, 2015, Dorada defeated Negro Casas in the finals of a tournament to win the CMLL World Welterweight Championship for the third time.[32] Later in the month, through CMLL's relationship with NJPW, Dorada signed a one-year contract with NJPW, leaving his Mexican home promotion.[33] He returned to CMLL and had his first match in Mexico for over a year on February 1, 2016. On May 3, 2016 his fourth reign as the CMLL World Welterweight Champion was ended as Mephisto defeated him for the championship.[34] On November 11, 2016, Dorada wrestled his last match for CMLL, teaming with Atlantis and Diamante Azul to defeat Bárbaro Cavernario, El Felino and Negro Casas.[35]
  • On June 13, 2016, WWE announced Dorada, under the ring name "Gran Metalik", as a participant in the upcoming Cruiserweight Classic tournament.[82] In a subsequent interview, he revealed that he was only working the Cruiserweight Classic matches with WWE and was still full-time with CMLL beyond that. He credited Finn Bálor, who worked as Prince Devitt in NJPW, as being the reason he was invited to the tournament. He wanted to use "Metalik" as his ring name but WWE decided to go with "Gran Metalik" instead.[83] The tournament began on June 23 with Metalik defeating Alejandro Saez in the first round match.[84] On July 14, Metalik defeated Tajiri in the second round match.[85] The following day, it was reported that Metalik had signed with WWE.[86] On August 26, Metalik defeated Akira Tozawa to advance at the semifinals.[87] On September 14, Metalik defeated Zack Sabre Jr. to advance to the finals.[88] The same night, he was defeated in the finals by T.J. Perkins.[88] Following the CWC tournament Gran Metalik began working in WWE's Cruiserweight division, appearing on both the Raw and 205 Live shows.[89] On September 19, Metalik worked his first match on the main roster, competing in a fatal four-way match, also involving The Brian Kendrick, Cedric Alexander and Rich Swann, to determine the number one contender for the WWE Cruiserweight Championship at Clash of Champions, which Kendrick won.[90]
Keep in mind there are many more like this. This is a regular problem I see in PW pages, I thought it would best comment this on one of the best articles. I recommend avoiding too many specific dates, only the month will be fine in most case, unless to indicate the beginning of a new year or an important date. Phrases like, "the following week/month/year" would be helpful to create better prose. Otherwise, I am quite impressed the way in which this differentiates the fictional world of wrestling (in universe) from real world perspective. THE NEW ImmortalWizard(chat) 19:59, 23 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your input, I'll go over the examples and other sentences to make sure I've reduced the prose line issue, which I am sure will lead to a much better article. (and yes agreed on PW in general). MPJ-DK (talk) 20:15, 23 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The "Máscara Dorada" ring character was the first instance of a regular luchador being given a character based on a Mini-Estrella as he was introduced after CMLL introduced Mascarita Dorada in 2007." - I couldn't get it. Probably rephrase?
  • In Lucha Libre the Minis are usually named after the regular sized ones Octagon -> Octagoncito, La Parka -> La Parkita, Mascara Sagrada -> Mascarita Sagrada. This was the first time it went the other way round Mascarita Dorada -> Mascara Dorada. MPJ-DK (talk) 20:20, 23 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • "after training with Gran Cochisse and El Satánico." source? I couldn't find this at ref 7. I cannot read ref 1 though. it is sourced in infobox, but it's best to include in body.
  • Again, I cannot read ref 1, but there is no mention of Plata II in ref 7. In ref 8 in the match cards, it says "Plata" which could possibly be the original one.
  • "The title and hair wins indicated that CMLL had plans to elevate Metalik up their ranks." - how do we know?
  • "The gimmick and the wrestler proved so successful, that in the fall of 2008, CMLL announced that they were creating a "Large" version of Mascarita Dorada. Traditionally the minis were often patterned after existing Luchadors, but this time the mini was created before the "Regular"." - citation needed.
  • "that Poder Mexica had been stripped of the Mexican National Trios Championship title" this is first mention of the tag team. Probably wikilink (if page exists) and include the wrestlers of the team.
  • "Comisión de Box y Lucha Libre Mexico D.F. " is it a news outlet of CMLL?
  • No it is the commission in Mexico City that sanctions and licenses all boxing and professional wrestling. MPJ-DK (talk) 21:02, 23 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I am not sure if it is appropriate to link people's official twitter/facebook accounts in external links. At least I haven't seen that in any other BLPs (I am not a fan of this anyways).
  • No clue myself, but there is both a "Facebook" and a "Twitter" template that's used, I personally don't have an opinion on it being in or out. MPJ-DK (talk) 21:07, 23 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • ImmortalWizard I believe I have either answered all questions or made the appropriate adjustments to the article, including prose line issues beyond the examples you so helpfully provided me with. Please let me know if I have overlooked anything? MPJ-DK (talk) 23:48, 23 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Seems good. I will let you know if I have other issues. Other than some of the citation issues, you have addressed them. THE NEW ImmortalWizard(chat) 09:20, 24 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • ref 14 and 15 are formatted in Spanish.
  • You mean because it lists the issue as "Número 21543 Año LXII"? That's the indicator on the cover, I left it that way to help identify the issue. MPJ-DK (talk) 11:11, 24 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would suggest having short citations for three of the offline sources with different page number citations: (Enciclopedia de las Mascaras 2007), (Madigan 2007), and (Ovaciones 2009).
  • Since each of them is only used twice and Ovaciones and Enciclopedia are different volumes I don't see any improvement in that. MPJ-DK (talk) 11:18, 24 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • The last two achievements under CMLL needs citation.
  • Found both in the Andrade article and added them. MPJ-DK (talk) 11:17, 24 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Metalik made his debut the 205 Live show, defeating Drew Gulak." grammar
  • "Máscara Dorada kept working mid-card tag team matches throughout the spring of 2008 with general success" probably needs citation? Also the term "mid-card" is not known to everyone
  • "where the Revival claimed to be "Tag team purists" and as such objected to the Lucha House Party was allowed to compete as a "tag team" when there was three of them." I checked the sources but couldn't find this claims.
  • "Over the years he has been given the nickname "El Rey de las Cuerdas" by Mexican commentators and fans, and the English version "The King of the Ropes" after joining WWE" ref 7 doesn't mention this.

I am forfeiting my review. For now, I have weak support. That is mainly because the article isn't fully checked yet. I would very much appreciate if the nominator and other editors leave feedback on my talk page, since this is the second ever FAC comments I have given. THE NEW ImmortalWizard(chat) 16:50, 24 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinator comments edit

We're coming up on a month without much support for promotion. This will have to be archived in the next week if we don't see some more attention. --Laser brain (talk) 16:41, 15 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • The opening line defines him in Spanish, with English in parens; this is backwards for en.wiki. See example at 2019 Venezuelan Amnesty Law.
  • But he is ONLY actually referred to by the Spanish names, the other is a translation of the name, not what he is called.
  • The opening sentence uses the word "currently"; need I spell it out?
  • I do not know what it means to "perform" on a "brand".
  • This sentence is twisted:
    In WWE he is part of a luchador trio consisting of himself, Lince Dorado, and Kalisto known as the "Lucha House Party".
    I suspect it intends to be:
    In WWE he is part of a wrestling trio known as "Luchas House Party", consisting of himself, Lince Dorado, and Kalisto. And there is no need to slip back in to Spanish with 'luchador'.
  • Redundant: "He has held the CMLL World Welterweight Championship four times in total.
  • We have him making his debut in 2005 twice in the lead. (In an underdeveloped lead.)
  • How can he "abandon a championship" just because he changed his name?
  • He got a new name, mask, ring character - basically pretending that he was not Metalik, so they just ignored the championship for a while.
  • Slipping back into Spanish in the lead, and obligating the reader to click out to know what Mini-estrella is.
    being given a character based on a Mini-Estrella
  • There is no English translation for "Mini-Estrella", well there is, but it's never used in it's English form.
  • Section "Luchas de Apuestas" record has no content.
  • It has a table of his record, no different than an MMA fighter etc. it's just short in his case.MPJ-DK (talk) 00:48, 20 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • fuegoenelring.com redirects to something else that gives no indication of reliability ([2])
  • I will check on that, the latter does not seem to havev anything to do with Fuego.
  • luchaworld.com appears to be a blog.
  • What is this? If it's a book, we need more info about how to find it: "Enciclopedia de las Mascaras" [Encyclopedia of Masks]. Metalik (in Spanish). Mexico City, Mexico. October 2007. p. 38. Tomo III.
  • It is a limited series magazine that was published in the late 2000s
  • Why is there a 296 hanging out in this citation? I can find nothing to indicate reliability for this source (nor can I find any indication of text in that source that verifies the text):
  • 296 is the issue number, it's filled in the cite web template and shows up like that. SuperLuchas is a Mexican print magazine that covers all sorts of fighting sports, has an established editorial process and fact-checking/correction history.
  • "Lo Mejor de la Lucha Libre Mexicana 2008" [The best of Mexican professional wrestling 2008]. Súper Luchas (in Spanish). January 6, 2008. 296. Retrieved July 11, 2009.
  • This citation is missing an author (Omar Carrillo):
    "Máscara Dorada tretacampeón, un luchador de oro puro" [Máscara Dorada triple champion, a golden professional wrestler] (in Spanish). Súper Luchas. September 9, 2010. Retrieved September 9, 2010.
    And I don't find where it verifies the text " the first ever in the history of the promotion.[25]"
  • Skipping down:
    and vuvuzela horns with them, using them to celebrate after a victory. They also carried a brightly colored Piñata donkey with them to the
    again, lapsing into Spanish which requires the reader to click out (vuvuzela), and it should be donkey piñata without a cap.
    Is there an English word for the Vuvuzela? I mean it is the name of the article and all.

I have not attempted a comprehensive review: I merely bounced around checking a few sources for copyvio, but there is not enough text drawn from any substantive source to do a copy vio check. This article has significant prose and sourcing issues, and I suggest it should be withdrawn. Perhaps the nominator can colloborate with another editor to bring it closer to standard; the issues I raise are but a small sampling, but indicate that the article needs considerable work before approaching FAC. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:49, 19 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • I appreciate your input, once I incorporate the improvements this will be a much stronger article. At this point I voluntarily withdraw this from FAC, to allow reviewers to focus on other articles in better shape. Is there anything I need to do for the withdrawal? MPJ-DK (talk) 00:48, 20 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/Máscara_Dorada/archive1&oldid=893386181"