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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/John Francis Jackson/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by GrahamColm 10:05, 21 April 2012 [1].

John Francis Jackson

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John Francis Jackson (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Ian Rose (talk) 17:39, 28 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Back to our regularly scheduled program of RAAF officers, I present "Old John" Jackson, so nicknamed because at 34 he was considered almost ancient by fighter-pilot standards. He achieved notability not just as an ace but as the commanding officer of No. 75 Squadron in the Battle of Port Moresby in 1942. He probably didn't even have to take this assignment, he just wanted to defend Australia when things were looking particularly grim. He was also independently wealthy, yet there was still something of the country bumpkin about him -- witness his Crocodile Dundee moment in the Alexandria hotel... ;-) At Moresby he proved an inspiration to his inexperienced squadron, a warrior who, in the words of a journalist Osmar White, "had done more than conquer fear--he had killed it".

The article has been through GA and MilHist A-Class Reviews. I've also taken the liberty of listing this as a potential TFA for 28 April, the 70th anniversary of Jackson's death in combat, pending a successful (and relatively speedy) outcome here -- thanks in advance for your reviews! Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 17:39, 28 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Heh, I've just remembered that Harry Chauvel is almost certainly going to be scheduled for TFA on 25 April (Anzac Day for the non-Australians), and we can hardly expect WP to run two Aussie military men within three days of each other, so that last point is kinda moot... ;-) Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 08:43, 29 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sources and images but no spotchecks. Nikkimaria (talk) 20:16, 28 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Be consistent in whether you include dates as part of shortened titles
  • Be consistent in use of "Retrieved" vs "Retrieved on"
  • Why is 51 formatted completely differently to all other citations to newspaper articles?
    • No good reason at all -- the perils of pinching a line from another article you've worked on that employed a slightly different style... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 05:45, 29 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • File:P02704.026MemoryLane1942.jpg: do the licensing tags given cover the photo, the memorial, or both? Nikkimaria (talk) 20:16, 28 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • Well, both -- do you have a particular concern re. the memorial? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 05:45, 29 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: In the 'Early career' section we have "That August, he joined the Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) Reserve, or Citizen Air Force." (Bolding mine). Is there any chance you can expand on what is meant by the word "or"? Was/is this a colloquial term, an alternate official name for the RAAF Reserve, what the RAAF Reserve was actually called back then, ... ??? I clicked the RAAF link and couldn't find any additional information. Cheers, Ben (talk) 02:52, 29 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Hi Ben. CAF appears to have been an alternate official term -- I could alter "or" to "also known as" or "also called" if that's works better. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 05:45, 29 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

So far so good on prose per standard disclaimer, down to where I stopped, about two-thirds of the way, at John_Francis_Jackson#South West Pacific. I'd link to my edits, if I had made any. - Dank (push to talk) 14:46, 29 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comments:

  • Did some copyediting; revert what you don't like.
    • No prob with any of that -- tks. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 01:10, 1 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "...squadron commander of World War II." Is that preposition an Australian English thing? It sounds odd to my Canadian ear - "during" would seem more appropriate - but it may be a dialectical thing.
    • Heh, to be honest I just felt that "of" had a bit more of a flourish than "during"... ;-) Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 01:10, 1 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "...before posting to the Middle East in November 1940." Similar here: in Canada, we'd treat him as the object, rather than the subject, of "to post", but I gather that's a regional thing as well?
    • I think it's valid militarese but probably no need to inflict it on the general public... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 01:10, 1 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Jackson made two stafing passes..." Should this be "strafing"?

Subject to the above, support on all criteria except 1(c) (thorough and representative survey) and 2(c). Steve Smith (talk) 22:34, 31 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thanks Steve, appreciate your time. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 01:10, 1 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comments – Purely nit-picks; this is a nice article.

  • Not sure if the full date of death needs to be repeated in the lead.
    • Fair enough.
  • Early career: "and also had interests in engineering and financial concerns." Minor, but the "also" is a bit of redundancy that can safely be removed without affecting the meaning.
    • Agreed.
  • South West Pacific: Period and space need to be removed before reference 40.
    • Thanks for spotting that one!
  • Remove the external link from the publisher of reference 5. Giants2008 (Talk) 01:23, 2 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • Not too fussed either way here but I gathered the standard was to use an external link for the main page of an online source unless a WP article on the entity was available. Also if we drop the link for here I assume you'd be suggesting the same for citation 35? In any case, tks for review! Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 02:40, 2 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      • Haven't heard that this is a standard, but it's possible that I've missed it since I don't work with military-related articles. Does anyone know if that is the case? Giants2008 (Talk) 01:05, 4 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
        • AFAIK it isn't an official standard, but I have seen it on many MilHist articles. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:53, 14 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support with nitpicks. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:53, 14 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • "had interests in engineering and financial concerns" - is there a less...British way to say this?
    • Will check sources and see if I can rephrase while keeping it general and avoiding unnecessary detail. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 02:44, 17 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "which to his consternation he found was faster than many in the RAAF's inventory" - this is a bit awkwardly phrased, and I'm not sure why he'd be annoyed by this?
    • He was surprised and a little worried that most of his country's combat planes didn't have the performance of a commercial aircraft -- I think I would be too... ;-) I've trimmed it anyway and left it to the reader to contemplate... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 02:44, 17 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "the couple had a son and a daughter" - do we know dates of birth?
    • I have included such things in other bios when I've known the details, so pretty sure no source supplied that for Jackson. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 02:44, 17 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • What's a "dummy attack"?
    • Fake attacks, coming at the enemy plane with the apparent intent of firing but not actually doing so. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 02:44, 17 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "his eagerness to return to combat having already done enough" -> "despite having already done enough"?
  • What is "sworn for probate"?
    • I've linked probate, but could simplify to "His estate was valued at..." if you like. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 02:44, 17 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "another local RAAF identity" - "identity" seems a strange word in that context if you like. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 02:44, 17 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • "Local identity" is a fairly common term in such a context in my part of the world -- seemed better than "another RAAF officer who came from the area" or suchlike, but always open to suggestions... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 02:44, 17 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "both sources stating that" -> "as both sources state that"? Nikkimaria (talk) 22:53, 14 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • Done/tks. Appreciate your time, Nikki! Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 02:44, 17 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support: reviewed this at ACR and think it has only gotten better since then. I have the following comments for the review:

  • I made a couple of minor MOS tweaks. Please check that you agree;
    • They look good, tks.
  • "and a four-minute reel of 16mm footage..." I think there should be a non-breaking space between "16" and "mm" here;
    • I think you're right...
  • I spot checked the Australian Dictionary of Biography source and it seemed fine - it supports what is being said in the article and there wasn't any close paraphrasing that I could see;
  • I also looked at Gillison. "After playing dead beside his crashed plane to discourage the Japanese fighters from machine-gunning him, he made his way through jungle for over a week to..." Reading this, I didn't quit get the picture that he actually ditched in the sea and had to swim ashore. Perhaps it could be tweaked slightly?
    • Heh, now you've confused me -- I don't actually mention Jackson ditching in the water at that point although, for the record, Gillison says he did on p.545. Or were you meaning to say that I should mention that he ditched and swam ashore?
      • G'day, sorry for the confusion. Yes, I was trying to say that I think you might mention that he ditched and swam ashore. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 09:23, 17 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
        • Ah, no worries, maybe I confused myself... Anyway, wilco. ;-) Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 11:04, 17 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • random Google searches didn't reveal any copyright violations of internet sources. Good work as usual. Cheers, AustralianRupert (talk) 23:17, 14 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • Thanks for your spotchecks and support, Rupert! Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 06:30, 17 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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