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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Ham Wall/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Laser brain via FACBot (talk) 19:37, 19 June 2018 [1].

Ham Wall

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Nominator(s): Jimfbleak - talk to me? 08:34, 18 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Not an example of building with bacon, but an important nature reserve in Somerset. Thanks to Rodw, Wikipedia's expert on the county, for help with the local history and geography Jimfbleak - talk to me? 08:34, 18 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

  • File:Peat_stacks_and_cutting.JPG: when/where was this first published? Nikkimaria (talk) 17:12, 19 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support from KJP1

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A very nice and comprehensive article, and what a beautiful bird the bittern is. Nothing to stand in the way of support, but a few comments below:

Infobox
  • Any reason we can't reFill the site's url? It looks a bit untidy.
Lead
  • "The reserve is open year-round, and has nature trails, hides and viewing point" - multiple viewing points or a single one?
  • "It lies within the Somerset Levels NNR and the Somerset Levels and Moors Ramsar and Special Area of Conservation site" - not knowing what a Ramsar was, I got a little confused, thinking it was part of a place name. Reading more closely, I think Ramsar and the SAC "belong" to "Somerset Levels and Moors". Can it be clarified in some way?
Landscape
  • "When the plants died in an oxygen-poor environment" - perhaps, "When the plants died in the oxygen-poor environment"?
History
  • "The Somerset Levels have been occupied since the Neolithic" - perhaps, "The Somerset Levels have been occupied since the Neolithic period"?
Reserve creation
  • "and the ditches weere deepened and widened" - typo.
  • "provide habitat for fish" - plural "habitats", or "a habitat"?
  • "Initial funding for the recovery scheme was £60,000 form English Nature in 1994" - "from".
Birds
  • "The reserve has attracted three other heron species that are attempting to colonise the UK". Perhaps it's a technical term, but this reads slightly oddly to me. They're not the Romans or the Saxons! "Attempting to breed in"?
  • "a blue-winged teal in 2012 and asquacco heron in 2011" - needs a space.
References
  • Any reason why Steve Hughes's work isn't listed in the cited texts? Ignore me if, as I suspect from Sources 17/35, British Birds is a magazine?
  • Source 7 - there's a missing closing bracket after the date.
Cited texts
  • You've got a mix of 10 and 13-digit isbns. Not my strong point, but I think MoS suggests consistency?
External links
  • This is blank, other than the Commons link? Either remove, or add the websites from some of the linked areas/organisations, e.g. RSPB, Somerset Wildlife Trust?

A very interesting read and a fine article, for which many thanks. KJP1 (talk) 10:31, 22 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • KJP1, thanks for your support, thorough review and kind words. I think I've fixed all the concernss above including the isbns which I hadn't even noticed. British Birds is a magazine, and I think the only other point to mention is that I've linked to Colonisation (biology) Thanks again, Jimfbleak - talk to me? 12:08, 22 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

From FunkMonk

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  • Looks interesting, will review soon. FunkMonk (talk) 12:56, 22 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • At first glance, I wonder why you use photos of animals from elsewhere? Wouldn't it be more appropriate to use photos that are actually from the site? There are some nice free ones of birds here[2][3][4][5][6], and of insects here.[7][8][9] The watermarks in some of them can be dealt with...
  • Glastonbury and Somerset Wildlife Trust are overlinked.
  • Thanks. Since the reserve was created for the bittern, I think there has to be an image, even if it's from elsewhere. If the problem with the peat image can't be resolved, I'll use one of the images you suggest, probably the heron instead. Of the insects, only the scarlet tiger is mentioned in the text, I'll upload that when I get the chance. I've removed the overlinks Jimfbleak - talk to me? 13:48, 22 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "to the RSPB" Link and spell out at first occurrence outside intro.
  • Did all bitterns and other animals arrive naturally by themselves, or were some brought there?
  • It's all natural colonisation, it would be mentioned if that were not the case. Jimfbleak - talk to me? 14:46, 23 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The formerly rare great white egret" Link.
  • "garganeys (typically two to three pairs) marsh harriers" comma needed?
  • The images linked above indicate that some interesting birds have visited there in addition to the ones listed (cormorant, Canada geese, crested grebe), I wonder if any sources mention them. FunkMonk (talk) 13:44, 23 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Those three species are common and widespread through UK wetlands and lakes (the introduced goose being virtually a pest), and it would be surprising were they not recorded in any suitable site. Many common birds occur on the reserve, and in deciding what merits a mention I've followed the "Key species" section of Hughes, my main source. Even grey heron only gets a mention because of its unusual choice of nest site in reeds. Jimfbleak - talk to me? 14:45, 23 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - that's it from me, looks good. Would be nice to get a photo of a bittern from the actual site... FunkMonk (talk) 15:51, 23 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Many thanks. I agree about a bittern image, but getting a good image of this elusive species is a lot easier said than done. Seeing them is tricky enough Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:00, 24 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Source review and subsequent support

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Only two comments, one very minor, and one a bit less so:

  • The minor one first: I was a bit confused by ref 30 which refers to pp. 556–625 of an issue of British Birds but provides a download of a document from this site. I'm sure they're the same text in two different manifestations, but that could be clearer.
  • Not even very different manifestations. Your linked page has "BBRC British Birds Rarity Committee" as its heading, and is closely associated with the eponymous magazine, which publishes all its reports (I have the print versions of the British Bird volumes listed) Each page of the report has British Birds 105 • October 2012 • 556–625 at the bottom. Jimfbleak - talk to me? 13:53, 24 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • More major: references 4a to 4k refer us to a magazine article running to 59 pages. Anybody wishing to follow up any of these eleven references is therefore asked to read from page 181 to page 240 of the magazine. I don't object to this method of citing journal articles when they're only a few pages long (I often use it myself), and I don't boggle at the hefty page ranges for refs 26–30, as there is only one reference to each. But 59 pages and 11 different references to them! That is effectively asking the reader to read up to 649 pages in search of the cited information. In such a case I think we ought to cite specific pages or page-ranges within the article, just as we would for a book.
  • Mea culpa, I seem to inadvertently entered the page range for the entire volume, not just that article. It should be 211–225 (now fixed), a more manageable range, especially as images make up nearly half the content. An easy beginning-to-end read. The BB references for annual reports are actually in taxonomic order, so anyone interested enough can rapidly find the entry anyway Jimfbleak - talk to me? 13:53, 24 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Otherwise, no problems. The sources seem to me to meet the criteria for quality, reliability and verifiability, and are consistently and logically cited. Tim riley talk 08:49, 24 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Tim riley, many thanks for the review, sorry I lead you astray with a fake page range. Jimfbleak - talk to me? 13:53, 24 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

That's splendid. Source review satisfactorily concluded. And while I'm here, I add my support for the promotion of the article. A pleasure to read, and meets all the FA criteria, to my mind. – Tim riley talk 15:37, 24 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Wehwalt

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Support Most interesting and very well done. Just a couple of comments.

  • "The nearest bus access is in Ashcott, 4 kilometres (2.5 mi) away, and the railway station in Bridgwater is 15 kilometres (9.3 mi) distant.[18][19]" what about Glastonbury? Is there no public transport?
  • There is no railway station in Glastonbury, so no contradiction there. I guess that although there isn't much difference regarding distances from Glastonbury and Ashcott bus stops as the bittern flies, the RSPB selected the latter as nearest since it's a straight walk up a proper road to the reserve entrance. From Glastonbury you need to use footpaths and you are approaching from the opposite side of the reserve to the main entrance Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:18, 1 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Dogs on leads are allowed on the Ham Wall loop (which includes public rights of way),[19] but only assistance dogs elsewhere.[21]" Possibly a verb in the latter portion of the sentence.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:41, 31 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • I guess it depends whether you consider that "allowed" carries through the sentence, but added a verb for clarity anyway. Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:18, 1 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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