Wikipedia

Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Fiji Parrotfinch/archive1

< Wikipedia:Featured article candidates
The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by SandyGeorgia 01:20, 16 April 2011 [1].

Fiji Parrotfinch edit

Fiji Parrotfinch (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Toolbox
Nominator(s): Jimfbleak - talk to me? 07:36, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

A beautiful little bird and a Fiji endemic. I thought it deserved more that the previous stub, so I've been working it up. As with many of Fij's birds, there's not a lot of data, but all that seemed relevant is here Jimfbleak - talk to me? 07:36, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Source review

  • Check formatting for Clements
  • Be consistent in whether there's a space after p./pp. or not
  • Need page numbers for multi-page PDFs
  • Be consistent in whether you provide publisher location or not
  • In general reference formatting needs cleanup for consistency. Nikkimaria (talk) 15:11, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Fixed two missed p/pp spaces, added p for swinnerton pdf, location for Clements, thanks for review Jimfbleak - talk to me? 05:52, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

Otherwise, sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. I ran the article through Coren's tool and Earwig's tool and nothing showed up in regards to plagiarism with those tools. Ealdgyth - Talk 15:20, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • The qfs is only to confirm what is implied by the other source, that it's sometimes kept in captivity. I think it's OK for that simple fact. Thanks for review Jimfbleak - talk to me?
  • My knowledge on this bird is currently zilch, but an article in the Avicultural Magazine says kula is the lory while this bird is given the name of qigi. Also it seems like the spelling pealei was often used in the past. The change has to do with Latin gender matching but it would be good to note with an actual source for the spelling change. Shyamal (talk) 16:16, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • All the red birds (lorikeet too) seem to often be called kula or kulakula but I've added qiqikula. I'll see if I can source the spelling change, but I'm not sure where to start. Thanks for comments and image Jimfbleak - talk to me? 05:52, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comments — Hi Jim, did you know about these sources? Normally I wouldn't worry about foreign language journals, but there's not a lot written about this species, and we want to make sure the article is comprehensive. Sasata (talk) 20:08, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Title: [A wonderful bird - Erythrura cyaneovirens pealii - observations on care and breeding.]
  • Author(s): Broscher, Markus
  • Source: Gefiederte Welt Volume: 120 Issue: 2 Pages: 52-54 Published: Februar 1996
  • Title: Haltung und Zucht der Peales-Papageiamadine (Erythrura pealii).
  • Author(s): Kuhn, G.
  • Source: Gefiederte Welt Volume: 108 Issue: 7 Pages: 185-186 Published: 1984
  • Title: Haltung und Zucht der Peales-Papageiamadine (Erythrura pealii).
  • Author(s): Kuhn, G.
  • Source: Gefiederte Welt Volume: 108 Issue: 8 Pages: 221-223 Published: 1984
  • Title: Le diamant de Peale (Erythrura peallii).
  • Author(s): Menegazzi, A.
  • Source: Journal des Oiseaux Pages: 25-26 Published: 1984
  • Title: RED-HEADED PARROT FINCH ERYTHRURA-CYANOVIRENS-PEALII COPULATION
  • Author(s): CLUNIE F
  • Source: Notornis Volume: 26 Issue: 1 Pages: 62 Published: 1979
  • Title: Monographie der Gattung Erythrura Swainson, 1837 (Aves, Passeres, Estrildidae).
  • Author(s): Ziswiler, V.; Guttinger, H.R.; Bregulla, H.
  • Source: Bonner zool. Monogr. Volume: No.,2 Pages: 1-158. Published: 1972
  • Thanks for that, I certainly wasn't aware of all these, I'll see what I can track down. Before I put too much effort into it, do you think that Gefiederte Welt is acceptable as RS? There are lots of breeders' web pages I haven't used, and I'm not sure if this publication is OK as a source. Jimfbleak - talk to me? 05:52, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think the Birds wikiproject could answer that more definitively, but the fact that its abstracted by the Zoological Record is certainly a mark in its favour. Sasata (talk) 15:03, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks to Ucucha for a link to the Notornis article (I've incorporated material now) and Maias for an Emu article, also used. Still no comments on notability of Gefiederte Welt Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:36, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Sasata, I'm not having much joy with these, apart from the one Ucucha found. The 1837 monograph had a few cites, but the only one that is relevant I've already used (Diamond). I've contacted the breeders' magazine Gefiederte Welt (Feathered World) but no reply. For most of the rest, the top Google search is this page! Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:29, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • There are a number of grey (or pale blue) squiggly lines around the islands on the map. I presume these are coral reefs (but I might be wrong), and I think the exact explanation should be provided on the image description on commons. Snowman (talk) 11:55, 29 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
They are reefs. What's the best way to caption? Just to put the blue lines are reefs seems a bit odd. Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:36, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I have added details to the image description on commons and a first attempt at an infobox caption. "resident year-round" should probably be sized at 90%, but I can not find the html 4 mark-up code at the present time. There is plenty of room in the sea for the full name of the islands, and the map would probably look better if there was an arrow to the Mam islands from the name written in full, so that the explanatory caption is not needed. Snowman (talk) 10:58, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for description change, I've recaptioned the map now Jimfbleak - talk to me? 12:42, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I saw your changes on Commons. I meant enough room in the sea under Kadavu island for the the words "Mamanluca group" with an arrow to the islands. Snowman (talk) 19:16, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I know, but I thought it was neater to just add the name Jimfbleak - talk to me? 14:41, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support—It is an enjoyable read and satisfies the FA criteria. You have my support. Thank you. Regards, RJH (talk) 17:24, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment—I saw little cause for concern with this article. It is an enjoyable read and satisfies nearly all the FA criteria. The only issue I ran across is the lack of Alt text for the images. Once that is addressed, I'll be pleased to support this article. Thank you. Regards, RJH (talk) 16:08, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Alt text is no longer an FAC criterion, but I've added anyway Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:25, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Thanks for doing that. As I understand it, Alt text for images is part of the style guidelines (last bullet at MOS:IMAGES), and those guidelines are part of the FA criteria. Regards, RJH (talk) 17:22, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comments: Excellent article. Here are my comments:

  • The first sentence of the second paragraph in the lead seems a bit drawn out to me. Maybe split it up?
  • done
  • Actually, it looks like you adjusted something in the first paragraph, not the second. I was referring to the sentence starting, "Parrotfinches may be predated..." – VisionHolder « talk » 14:57, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • I can't count to two, duh. Restored para 1 and split first sentence of PARA 2 now (: Jimfbleak - talk to me? 17:10, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • If I'm reading this correctly, Geospiza prasina is a synonym, and if so, should be listed in the taxobox.
    • done
  • "good species" or "valid species"? I guess I've just never seen "good species" in the literature.
  • done
  • Jared Diamond needs to have his name spelled out fully on first mention, and possibly add his specialty.
  • Done
  • "rice ears"? Sorry, not familiar.
  • linked through to ear (botany) Need to keep the word to make it clear that seeds are taken from the plant, rather than harvested grain
  • Do species of grass need to be capitalized?
  • probably not (except Guinea), lc now
  • In a lot of discussions at WikiProject Animals etc., people have opined that one case should be used, though I'm not sure there's any agreement, and the names here look like they're all birds or plants(and the plant names look like they all could be generic ones). —innotata 20:30, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Otherwise, looking good. I'm eager to add my support. – VisionHolder « talk » 05:03, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support—good job! – VisionHolder « talk » 17:36, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for support Jimfbleak - talk to me? 19:35, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Comments: In general, is there more to say on habitat and distribution? Do any sources discuss what sort of islands or which islands the bird occurs on? (whether it needs large islands, why it occurs only on some small islands, Mamanuca and Yasawa?) Anything about it only occurring on part of Kadavu (or is this an error on the map?) Anything on particular types of forests and other natural habitats? The article makes me curious, but won't be surprised if there's nothing. —innotata 20:30, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • The Kadavu map error is due to my misreading, now corrected. Watling describes the presence on Mamanuca and Yasawa as "somewhat curious", if he doesn't know why they are there, I surely don't. I suppose it's the usual thing, that even if birds reach small islands they can easily die out through lack of or loss of habitat, predation by rats, or cyclone damage (The Red-headed Parrotfinch, on Samoa, was badly affected by cyclones). As to habitat, it's not a specialist like Pink-billed Parrotfinch, it was easy in hotel gardens (OR). As long as there are some decent trees, it can breed, and it's diet enables it to use open habitats for feeding Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:41, 4 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • The caption for Goodchild's illustration doesn't have much to do with the image, though it probably could, since it's from the Avicultural Magazine. I'll see if I have anything more on the text, but looks good, and well-reviewed. —innotata 20:30, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've removed the caption since it's obvious what we are seeing, and moved its text and ref to "Status" Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:41, 4 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks for review and comments, the article contains everything RS I could find Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:41, 4 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Does the term "croton finch" refer specifically to this species?
  • probably, I've added because of their liking for the croton bush
  • Any particular reason to have the Fijian name in the lead? Looks rather messy in the opening line.
  • removed
  • Would "distinct" species in the last paragraph of taxonomy be better? The issue isn't whether they're valid
  • changed
  • Should the call be italicised?
  • done
  • "Whilst constantly calling" sounds choppy; it makes it seem like they do this whenever they call constantly. Something like "Constantly calling all along" would be good, but I can't think of a particular phrasing. Small issues, but I don't think I'll find anything else. The lead's a bit short (but I also have a hard time getting longer leads, and looks like there's particular little to say about this species), but otherwise looks like an FA. —innotata 15:00, 4 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • now The pair fly on a strongly oscillating path with one bird ascending while the other is descending, both calling constantly
  • thanks again, I was thinking of doing the other Fijian parrotfinch next, since Polynesian birds are poorly represnted on Wikipedia, but perhaps I should find something with more meat Jimfbleak - talk to me? 18:49, 4 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Changing to support above: looks like there are no major issues that would stop this from being promoted, and the minor ones I can find resolved. —innotata 18:55, 4 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Many thanks for review and support

Lead is balanced. Every section of the article is summarized by the lead, and every sentence in the lead is supported by a sentence in the article.

  • "It is found in both forested and open habitats, and has adapted well to man-made environments such as grasslands, pasture and gardens; it readily forms small flocks when not breeding" How are these two sentences related? Assuming they're unrelated, as seems to be the case, I suggest splitting off the breeding chunk into a separate sentence and expanding it a wee bit.
  • Split, moved to after "breeding" sentence, now It readily forms small flocks of up to six birds after the breeding season. Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:08, 10 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Breeding birds build a domed grass nest with a side entrance, and lay four white eggs." This definitive phrasing implies that clutch is four eggs every time. The corresponding sentence in the article, "The normal clutch is four spherical whitish eggs", implies that there may be some variation. Which is correct?
  • added "normally"
  • "older fledglings resemble the adults, but lack the red head." What causes the decapitation? Just kidding. I suggest clarifying that the lack the red coloring, not the red head.
  • done
  • "The Fiji Parrotfinch eats seeds, especially of grasses, but also readily takes insects and nectar." Where does it take them?
  • now "feeds on"

--Cryptic C62 · Talk 05:28, 10 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comments
  • "The Fiji Parrotfinch and the Royal Parrotfinch of northern Vanuatu are now usually considered to be distinct species, but they were formerly frequently treated as subspecies of the Samoan Red-headed Parrotfinch, E. cyaneovirens." Can you give more detail there? E. pealii was evidently considered a distinct species in the mid-19th century; when did it become a subspecies and when did it get back to species status?
  • That's tricky, Peale and Hartlaub both named it as a distinct species from the date of their descriptions, but as with other closely related forms, you pay your money and take your choice. Of the two main sources, Watling splits and Clements lumps, so it's not resolved now. There's a general trend towards splitting, but short of listing splitters and lumpers, it's difficult to give more clarity. I've added "again" to the last sentence of the taxonomy section to reflect that they were initially described as full species, but the "usually" and "frequently" reflect the fashion element in this - the Victorians split everything, earlier this century, there was more consolidation, and now better knowledge and DNA are fueling resplitting
  • Why is the mongoose (presumably the small Asian mongoose, Urva auropunctata) not mentioned under "Predators"?

Ucucha 13:49, 11 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Why indeed, since this mammal has single-handedly wiped out several species, and predates ground feeding birds. added and switched link to speciesJimfbleak - talk to me? 16:10, 11 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments Only minor nitpicks: Sasata (talk) 15:20, 13 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • lead sentence: is it the Fiji ParrotFinch, or the Red-headed Parrotfinch that is endemic to Fiji (yes, obvious from common name I guess, but the current wording leaves room for doubt)
  • tweaked to remove ambiguity
  • suggested links for lead: subspecies, clutch, predated, bird of prey
  • done
  • two "readily" in two consecutive sentences is slightly repetitive
  • removed unneeded second "ready"
  • maybe link specific name, binomial, plumage, courtship, tubercle, pet trade
  • done
  • ref #5 (Bahr) needs a year
  • eek - done now
  • use of fullstops after author initials is inconsistent
  • think I've found and removed them all
  • use of month in publishing date is not necessary, and should be consistent throughout if used
  • never occurred to me, I've always given months for monthlies and not otherwise, all gone now
  • mix of sentence case/title case with journal article titles
  • Done, except that I've left the legislation capped, which is normal practice, and I think that "Vogel" is OK because it's translating Peale's Birds of..., and being German should probably be capped anyway
  • "Miscellaneous publications", "BirdLife international" -> capital P & I?
  • done
  • according to Worldcat, the location for Watling, 2003 (or 2004?) is Suva, Fiji and the publisher is "Environmental Consultants"
  • Yes, I seemed to have put his name and address instead of his company and its offices

Images

  • Source for the hotel carpet grass point? It's partially covered by article text, but not entirely

Images themselves are unproblematic. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:52, 14 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • I'm not totally sure what you are getting at here, but, as far as I can see, the only bit of the caption that isn't supported by the text in "Distribution and habitat" and "Behaviour" (para 2) is the fact that gardens can specifically include hotel gardens, so I've removed "hotel" (I accept that the fact I regularly saw them in that garden is OR) Let me know if I've misunderstood, and thanks for image check, Jimfbleak - talk to me? 05:37, 14 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Okay, the article text supports that the bird has adapted to man-made habitats and is found in gardens, but the caption specifically attributes its successful adaptation to the use of carpet grass for lawns (or at least that's how I read it). Nikkimaria (talk) 12:59, 14 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm with you now, I've changed "enabled" to "helped" in the caption, so that it's not implying a single cause. I think that reflects the article text. Depending how you read the source it may well be the main reason for gardens, but that's not explicit, and it's obviously not true for agricultural land Jimfbleak - talk to me? 14:24, 14 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/Fiji_Parrotfinch/archive1&oldid=1046367468"