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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Bernard Fanning

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted 00:30, 10 March 2008.

Bernard Fanning edit

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Bernard Fanning is the lead singer of Powderfinger, and has been since shortly after the band's formation in ~1989. He has also released a highly successful independent album. While this article isn't the longest, it does cover all aspects of the topic, in my opinion, and is well written, thanks to extensive peer reviewing. That said, I'm happy to implement any suggestions. Cheers, dihydrogen monoxide (H20) 09:24, 21 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Strong keep - errr, I mean Support - As a contributor, which only happened by accident, since I didn't intend to spend so much time editing and contributing to this FA drive, I'm confident the article comfortably meets all of the necessary criteria for Featured Article status. It's comprehensive and thorough, well written and fully referenced. There's a chance more things could be added to this page over time, but no article on Wikipedia is a finished work, and that includes Featured Articles. That said, I'm sure some adjustments and implementations will be encountered through the course of this FA, but I support the promotion in the current state, nevertheless. --rm 'w avu 22:26, 21 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support A well-written and well-sourced article, with the finesse of a FA. Passes my criteria for a Featured Article, but (and much more importantly), passed the necessary requirements and criteria from a Wikipedia standpoint for a FA. The work that will take place after it's designation will only help to build up the article even further. Jmlk17 09:19, 22 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • A few comments (and I know it's rather awkward to do this, considering I've worked on the article a little bit, but I'd prefer to let you decide what to do):
    • (In Powderfinger return) It mentions "sixth studio album", "the new album", "their album" and then finally the name of the album. Why not something like:
      Throughout 2006, Fanning had hinted towards Powderfinger ceasing their hiatus to release a sixth studio album. Recorded in Los Angeles, Dream Days at the Hotel Existence was released on June 2, 2007. The title of the album came from a chapter of Brooklyn Follies by Paul Auster, a book that Fanning had read during recording.
    • (In Style, technique, and influences) "more important than "showing off my chops""; should be "showing off [his] chops".
    • (In Style, technique, and influences) "Fanning has stated: "The thing I love most is writing songs"."; is this really necessary as a standalone? Could it possibly be worked into another relevant sentence?
    • His philanthropic acts under Personal life are more to do with the band playing at charity concerts rather than his own acts. This should be merged into the Musical career section, I think.
    • I don't really think the image under Discography should be listed there... if anything, a better image of him performing on the tour should replace the one of him performing in London in the "Powderfinger return" section.
      • OK, I removed the image in the discog area. I don't see anything wrong with the London one, unless you have a better one that you'd rather add in. dihydrogen monoxide (H20) 23:29, 22 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Would you consider a merge of the "Independent singles" and "Independent albums" into one subheader titled "Independent work"?
    • (Infobox) "Piano, Guitar, Percussion, Harmonica"; lowercase, and in birthdate / place, what about a {{flagicon}}?
    • The lead seems... insufficient. I think it should touch on some of the main points of Powderfinger's career in addition to Bernie's solo releases (which aren't mentioned yet).
      • I suck at leads, but I gave it a shot. How is it now? dihydrogen monoxide (H20)
        • Looks alright, however, I was thinking of making a mention of Tea & Sympathy and other bits and pieces of his solo career, and bits of Powderfinger's career as well. I'll make an attempt later.
          • I went ahead and made specific mention of Tea & Sympathy. Feel free to make further changes if you like. dihydrogen monoxide (H20) 23:45, 22 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • "John Collins (bass guitar) and Steven Bishop (drums)"; change, to something like "John Collins and Steven Bishop, who later became the band's first bass guitarist and drummer".
    • (In Powderfinger return) Perhaps split it into two paragraphs, the first pertaining to Dream Days, and the other to other events of Powderfinger (i.e., ARIAs, ATGD, others not included). With the tour, I think the main purpose is to promote the efforts of Reconciliation Australia to reduce the 17-year life expectancy gap between Indigenous and Non-Indigenous Australians, and also, to "show [that] both bands are behind the idea of reconciliation", although it only mentions the latter (it appears that the former is the most important of the two).
    • Ref #22 needs to be formatted like the rest, i.e., remove Powderfinger Central as the publisher, remove URL and convert to {{citation}} (I think it's the one that I missed).

That should be it. Spebi 22:14, 22 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Neutral Karanacs (talk) 21:56, 29 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now based on citation issues.;
    • First paragraph in early life section does not flow well at all.
    • Please note that all quotations must be immediately followed by a source (even if the source is the next one listed). This makes sure that we always know where the quote is from. There are numerous violations of this throughout the article.
    • In the references section, all newspaper names should be italicized. There are a few instances where this isn't done.

Karanacs (talk) 20:07, 28 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for taking the time to review this article. dihydrogen monoxide (H20) 09:30, 29 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The Brisbane Times is stil not italicized in the references, and now some weird things (like Powderfinger FAQ are). Karanacs (talk) 21:56, 29 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The Brisbane Times isn't a newspaper; it's an online news resource. I'll fix the Powderfinger FAQ one (the work= parameter does that). dihydrogen monoxide (H20) 08:50, 1 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments I don't think references 25 and 26 are reliable. It's not an official Powderfinger website and they give no indication as to where the quotes came from. Also, is reference 11 really even necessary? The info is pretty out in the open. You don't need to source things that are "common knowledge", even if not many people know about it. NSR77 TC 21:07, 1 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • That's a fair enough call about the ned kelly reference, but take a more prominent film like casablanca, where we still use references to confirm details of the occurrences within. The other references are equally as reliable as the majority of rock musicians we list. rm 'w avu 22:51, 1 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks for your comments Sandy; I've gone through and fixed the three issues raised ([1][2][3]) I took another look at the refs but couldn't see anything else - if someone else can please leave a note and I'll do my best. Cheers, dihydrogen monoxide (H20) 08:51, 3 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - MOJSKA 666 (msg) 12:40, 4 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments
    • I'll say to start that I'm struggling with 1b (comprehensiveness) because the lead and article itself are quite short. That being said, however, it is difficult to identify what might be missing. Has this been researched only with Web searches? Has someone done a library search on LexisNexis for print sources? For example, how about a heading on public image. You state in the article that Fanning is "a powerful individual in the public view of the Australian music industry." It follows that there would be sources detailing this image that could expand the article.
      • I'll forward you to Peripitus' comments below, which focus on this; some more should be added in the process. dihydrogen monoxide (H20) 07:48, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        • I did a basic search this morning and came up with a LOT of articles about Fanning that you don't use here, mostly because they are not available online via free web searches. Billboard Magazine, Sunday Telegraph, The Sun Herald, and many more. My concerns about criterion 1b are affirmed in this case. It would probably be prudent to collaborate with an editor that has access (usually through a school or university) to things like Academic Search Premier, Lexis Nexis, etc. to get more sources and flesh this baby out. Alternately, you can usually bug librarians at local libraries (not sure how this works in Australia). --Laser brain (talk) 14:47, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Is Powderfinger the only band Fanning has been in? The dates seem to match up.. he went to college, dropped out, joined Powderfinger. I just ask because it's unusual for a musician to hit it big basically on their first try - would like assurance that the article is comprehensive about his musical history.
    • The allegation of plagiarism (which is quite serious in many countries) requires a reliable, independent source.
      • Hmm...I haven't really been able to find anything...it could be a "word on the street" thing. I've removed this to be on the safe side, tell me if you think that's overkill... dihydrogen monoxide (H20) 07:48, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        • No, I don't think it's overkill. It's a BLP issue. In many places, plagiarism at the university level will get you expelled and a permanent black mark on your academic record. --Laser brain (talk) 14:47, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Check over the article for stylistic but ungrammatical comma use. Do not use commas to segregate clauses that are not complete sentences on their own. Example: "Middleton accepted the offer, and became the fifth member, joining Jon Coghill..."
    • Are there no personality clashes in the band with Fanning, considering his status as a "vocal and prominent" member, solo album/tour, etc?
    • The beard statement at the end seems rather trivial, not to mention confusing since he's wearing a beard in neither of the photos in the article.
    • The table layouts in the Discography need consistency and style fixes. Can you put the Powderfinger albums in a similar table even if you don't include notes? Also, the visual cues are unclear that you put "albums" and "singles" in different tables.
      • Hmm...generally, if there's a discography article (like Powderfinger discography in this case) then albums are just listed, while independent stuff is kept in full discog format. If you don't mind, I'll keep it like that. I'm not quite sure what you mean by the visual cues? dihydrogen monoxide (H20) 07:48, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        • I'm okay with the Powderfinger discography. To clarify about the others - it took me a few seconds to realize that you had put albums in one table and singles in other, because the only thing indicating the separation is the table column labels. Column labels are a form of "visual cue", or something that tells a scanning reader what information to expect. Normally tables require more than colmun labels - they need a table head that describes the table, or subheadings above each table that describe them. This is mostly a subjective issue though, so it's not a dealbreaker. --Laser brain (talk) 14:47, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
          • I've added a table caption (|+ Caption here) to each of the tables. It's a better alternative to separate section headers, IMO. Spebi 21:50, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Great work so far! --Laser brain (talk) 05:57, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks heaps for reviewing! dihydrogen monoxide (H20) 07:48, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments (only on 1b - comprehensiveness), I'm mostly content that it's about a broad as possible but there are perhaps a few more things that can be written about.
    • Perhaps a mention of his politics (noted as left leaning (ANDREW, Kelly, The Dominion Post, 12th October 2007)) - take note of the stance over Black Tears with his quote "The trial of the policeman that was charged has gone ahead and he was acquitted. In terms of that issue, that's out of the way, but the whole idea of Aboriginal people in custody dying is certainly not out of the way. And Aboriginal people being treated like shit in Australia is certainly not out of the way either,". Note that he's stated as seeing this as a moral rather than political issue.
      • I'll try and weave that quote in, but do you have a link to the article you've cited? dihydrogen monoxide (H20) 07:48, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        • Now using that quote; a URL for sourcing would be good if, as I've said, you have one. :) dihydrogen monoxide (H20) 08:11, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
          • Unfortunately I accessed the article via Ebscohost - has most Australian newspaper's text for the last few years and a not rubbish search engine - I've put the text in my sandbox's history - Peripitus (Talk) 11:07, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Perhaps more on why Powderfinger drifted out of the picture for few years....the above Andrew Kelly article also states "His solo album was written after the break-up of a 12-year relationship".
      • Yeah, I remember hearing that too. I'll try and find some info (again, a link to that article would be great). dihydrogen monoxide (H20) 07:48, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        • Just realised what you were suggesting...IIRC, those comments actually referred to a breaking up with his girlfriend, not the band splitting up or anything. At least, that's what I remember hearing. See Barry Divola, SMH, 12 October 2006, for instance. dihydrogen monoxide (H20) 08:11, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • He also wrote a long piece on respect/reconciliation for/with Aboriginal people - Various News Limited papers including "The Sunday Mail", 08/07/2007....gives a good rundown on his thoughts leading to the writing of Black Tears

- Peripitus (Talk) 07:15, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks as always mate. dihydrogen monoxide (H20) 07:48, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • One thing that stands out to me is the lead section; at its current size, it appears to be a lead of a good article, however, I really think it needs some expansion to ensure that it accurately summarises the whole article. Could it include one or two sentences about his early life and his introduction to music; could it mention a bit more about Powderfinger, or mention his top singles from his solo career? Perhaps another relevant statement could be added to the first paragraph, then you could split the style and technique stuff into its own paragraph and expand the newly-created second paragraph with further details about his career with/without Powderfinger.
  • Also, does Fanning have a Wikiquote page? I'd suggest linking to it if there is one. Spebi 21:50, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • I don't think he's got a Wikiquote page...well, not one that I'm aware of anyway. I've expanded the lead. Thanks (again!) for taking a look. Cheers, dihydrogen monoxide (H20) 01:12, 8 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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