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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Audioslave

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted 01:38, 29 September 2007.

Audioslave

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I've worked on improving the article in my free time during summer; I've completely rewritten it, added more useful sections, reliable references to everything dat can be challenged, added images with fair use rationale, and sound samples with fair use rationale. I think it is comprehensive, accurate, and - I hope - neutral. The biggest problem is grammar, I guess, as English is not my first language. It is also currently undergoing a peer review. Gocsa 11:01, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Looking pretty good. I just gave it a copy edit, per WP:WIAFA here are some thoughts: I'd say it easily complies with 1b-e. If it's not already at 1a it's very close. Probably some awkward sentences I missed. I'm still learning the mammoth MOS, but the lead section is good. The article is quite well-cited. I was a bit wary of some of the citations to the Audioslave Fan Forum, and it appears that some of those are repostings of articles from other magazines (ZeroMag or Guitar World). From what I understand, Wikipedia has no policy on convenience links (just this essay Wikipedia:Convenience links), but we definitely can't use those links if the forum is posting copyrighted material without permission. I haven't look at images yet. The article is probably a bit long. Perhaps a lot of the information on each album could be moved to the page on that respective album? --JayHenry 00:26, 6 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Well, the Audioslave Fan Forum links are OK, I think, one of them is an article written by a member of the Audioslave Fan Forum itself, with her permission (the 'Audioslave: Pushing Forward Back'), the other is just a short news article, and there is a concert review written by another member. The only copyrighted material was the 2003 Total Guitar magazine interview with Tom Morello, and I've changed that reference. Gocsa 10:27, 6 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, thanks for addressing that. All the images are freely-licensed or have detail fair use rationales. I'm not convinced, however, by the rationale at Image:AudioslaveMorelloAxisofJustice.jpg — an image of Morello and some volunteers at an information tent. This image is easily replaceable, as Morello still actively does this. I would suggest just removing this image, the article will not suffer. My biggest concern is now the length. Would it be possible to move some of the recording information about each album into the article for that respective album? I'd be happy to help with this, if you'd like. I think following the suggestions at Wikipedia:Summary style, we can get this to a more manageable length. --JayHenry 18:06, 7 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You're right about the image, but still, it'd be nice to use it in the article, so I've sent an e-mail to a webmaster, requesting the use of the image, I hope I'll get an answer, and the right one. I kinda knew that the article turned out to be long in the end, but I really didn't know, and still don't know what to delete, so I'd be glad if you could do that. Just weed out every irrelevant information, you can move them to the album pages, if you will, and you can delete/move other things too. Thank you for your help in advance. I really appreciate it. Gocsa 18:35, 7 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sorry, I haven't forgotten, but I ended up spending more time than expected at RFA this week, and haven't had a chance to make these edits! I promise I will finish shortening this tomorrow. After shortening a bit, I think I'll be prepared to support this FAC. If we could leave this open just a few more days, I think we can address whatever needs to be addressed. Apologies again for the delay on my end! --JayHenry 05:14, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Support I've been pretty worthless trying to shorten. Not as much to merge as I thought. I ran it through a word counter and the body text is actually only about 15% bigger than Smashing Pumpkins now, so I'm comfortable that the length isn't out of control, and that was my only significant concern to begin with. --JayHenry 06:11, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • The infobox logo isn't permitted under fair use, as it's not criticised in the article. Also, it makes sense to make the band's name in the infobox as easy to read as possible. Otherwise, I'll give it a copyedit as part of prose review. CloudNine 09:21, 8 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, I got rid of the logo. Gocsa 09:58, 8 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think it's that bad, it certanly does the job. Gocsa 21:02, 10 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Support Good job KoMuNeRo MaG 16:02, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Issues

  • Some very long sentences. Take this one at the top, which I had to read three times to disentangle:
"Although during the early stages of their career the band was often described as an amalgamation of two bands, Rage Against the Machine and Soundgarden,[1] or Rage Against the Machine's fractured parts fronted by a different vocalist,[2][3] by the time of the release of the second album, Out of Exile, most critics agreed that Audioslave was more than just the sum of its parts[4][5] and members were getting closer to finding their identity as a cohesive band.[6][7][8]". Search through for others that would be easier split by a period or a semicolon.
  • Use "with" as a clause connection only in desperation. Here's an example of two "withs" that perform different functions, causing a hiccup for the reader:
"As the three were busy with reunion performances and with Morello and Cornell both releasing solo albums in 2007, Audioslave was officially disbanded."

Tony 02:20, 16 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment. I've taken a second look at the article (actually, printed it out and looked through it), and I've come across several issues:
CloudNine's addressed comments
  • The first paragraph should be rephrased. The first sentence is too long and awkward for my liking. Here's an alternate version of the lead that may flow better:


  • I don't think the second paragraph of the lead is needed. It should be obvious to the reader that Audioslave was effectively an amalgamation of two bands (anyway, the second part of that sentence seems to state it in a different way). "Sum of its parts" sounds a little clichéd to me. Perhaps this paragraph could be shorten and merged with the first? (First paragraph could explain the band's identity and makeup perhaps?).
  • Can you help me with this part? I'd like to shorten it and merge it with the first paragraph, but I kinda can't find the appropriate words to express what I want:) The meaning of that part is how critics deemed the band only a supergroup at the time of the first album, and how they broke out of that stereotype by the second (and third) album. Can you rewrite it or help me in some way? Thank you very much. Gocsa 09:46, 18 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Even if you choose not to address the previous comment, "by the time of the release of the second album" could be shortened "By Audioslave's second album, ...".
  • You may want to be consistent with numbers through the text (i.e. eight is preferred to 8)
  • Apparently a citation is needed for the Cornell quote in the fourth para of the lead.
  • The first sentence of the Formation section feels like a run-on sentence to me. I suggest rephrasing the first two sentences, and adding the band's breakup to the second.
  • "Several vocalists jammed with the band at this time, [...], but they.." is a little confusing on first read. Try "the three" instead for clarity?
  • "The second sentence of the "Name" section may confuse some readers, as it's not too clearly phrased. Here's my attempt:


  • This shortens the para, so you may want to merge the first and second paras together.
  • My own personal preference, but you may want to move the citations in cquotes to after the colon (i.e. "as follows:[1]")
  • Spotted a "they" and "their" in the first sentence of ===Audioslave=== when you're referring to Audioslave. You may want to check for more of those. Replacing it with "the band" should be fine. (Just being picky! :))
  • There's a bit too much detail about individual singles (esp. "Cochise" and "Show Me How to Live") and albums in general. I'll attempt to summarise things soon.
  • I've removed an unnecessary sentence from the "Cochise" and the "Show Me How to Live" paragraphs, what else do you think should be removed? I think this much of info is needed as both were important singles, "Cochise" being the very first song released, its video is also relevant, while "Show Me How To Live" was banned, so it deserves 2 sentences. I guess some album infos can be moved or deleted, but I really shouldn't do it, as I'm more of a fan of the band, I don't know what to remove, what to keep:) Gocsa 18:58, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yeah, the more I read those paragraphs, the more important they appear to be. It's quite hard to find text to move, although some of the album reviews could be shortened a little.
  • "Only months after the break-up of the band did Cornell reveal that he appeared in the "Cochise" video in the middle of his 30-day alcohol rehab spell, and after the shoot was over he was driven back to the institute." This seems like a minor detail that would be better suited to the "Cochise" article, as it's not directly related to the band itself.
  • "and sometimes overshdowed the re-united headliners, Jane's Addiction". "somtimes overshadowed" doesn't make much sense (although I know what you're trying to say here). I'd remove it, combine the two sentences, and leave the commentary to the sources themselves.
  • "It is also one of the few Audioslave songs to have a very radio-friendly, poppish tune, and is probably one of their most well-known songs." I'd remove from here to the end of the paragraph, as it's better placed in the "Be Yourself" article.
  • Also, the paragraph beginning "The music video for "Be Yourself" debuted in late April.." isn't really related to the band; my advice would be to remove it.
  • What's a spring club tour? It's not clear.
  • The sentence beginning "While on their previous tours behind the first album they never" is long and unclear. I've not seen "behind" in this context. I'd suggest splitting it up into one or more sentences.
  • ref #3 can't be found.
  • I've been bold and removed the information about "Original Fire" (as again it's not directly related to the band).
  • The news about Cornell's departure doesn't flow well; the end of the previous paragraph talks about Audioslave's various appearances in games, and then it switches to his departure. I'd rephrase it and perhaps merge it in with another paragraph (I'll attempt it soon).
  • I've just changed the order of the paragraphs/sentences, maybe it's better now. I switched the song appearances and the news about Cornell's departure, and also made a new paragraph about the marketing of Revelations, by adding the video game and movie appearances infos to the Audioslave Nation part. Gocsa 16:03, 23 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • You may want to shorten the paragraph of Revelations reviews, and keep it down to a minimum.
  • "The Rage Against the Machine reunion at Coachella was said to be a one-off, but it turned out differently" seems a little informal to me. You may want to rephrase this.
  • One remaining general problem with the article: Spring, summer etc. shouldn't be used to refer to times of the year (as for our readers in the Southern Hemisphere it's quite confusing). Early, mid and late <year> should suffice.
  • "Audioslave mixed different genres in their music" doesn't sound formal to me (and it's a little general). I'd remove it, as the following sentence sums up Audioslave's musical style more accurately.
  • The sentence beginning "This unique mix.." is a little long. Perhaps move the information about Cornell's lyrics to a separate sentence? Here's a version that may be a little clearer:


  • You may want to remove their first names from the above quote, as it'll make it a little clearer to read.
  • I'd explain why the band included the statement "All sounds made..", as it might be a little unclear to the reader.
  • Your choice, but you may want to change the title to "Campaigning and activism" or "Politics", to be consistent with other articles.
  • Just noticed: "After releasing three highly successful albums, receiving three Grammy nominations, selling more than eight million records worldwide and becoming the first American rock band to perform an open-air concert in Cuba, Chris Cornell issued a statement" makes it sound as if the band in question is Chris Cornell. It's a well-written sentence otherwise, so perhaps mention Audioslave towards the start of the sentence?
  • "While Rage Against the Machine's music was politically influenced, Audioslave's originally was not, as Chris Cornell said he did not want to become the new singer of Rage Against the Machine or be in a political band, but he would play any benefits the other band members want to." is hard to follow, and appears to be a run-on sentence. You may want to rephrase or split it.
  • "the debut album in the form of". "Audioslave's "Set It Off" should suffice, and read better.
  • "The latter" doesn't apply when you've listed three or more items previously. I'd replace this with "Wide Awake".
  • "anti-Iraq war" might be better phrased as "against the Iraq War"
  • "president" should be "President" in this context I believe. A second opinion is welcome.
  • The sentence beginning "While in Cuba, Cornell said.." runs on a little bit. You may want to rephrase it.
  • "He added that he feels" also reads a little awkwardly.
  • "ultimately culminated". "ultimately" is redundant here.
  • Moving onto Solo projects: "...politically in his music, Audioslave being a completely non-political band". The last part doesn't seem to flow from the rest of the sentence.
  • To reduce the article's size (and make it quicker to load), you may want to remove the reference names, as they're only required when you want reference the same thing twice or more. (Pearl Jam has roughly the same amount of prose, yet is much smaller in total size). CloudNine 11:48, 24 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
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