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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/1991 Perfect Storm/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ucucha 14:14, 1 October 2011 [1].

1991 Perfect Storm edit

1991 Perfect Storm (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Juliancolton (talk) 19:40, 9 September 2011 (UTC), Hurricanehink (talk · contribs)[reply]
Swells march shoreward from the horizon in great, even bands, their white crests streaming sideways in the wind and their ranks breaking, reforming, and breaking again as they close in on Cape Ann. In the shallows they draw themselves up, hesitate, and then implode against the rocks with a force that seems to shake the entire peninsula. Air trapped inside their grey barrels gets blown out the back walls in geysers higher than the waves themselves. —Junger's The Perfect Storm

The above excerpt from a well-known and high-selling creative nonfiction work by Sebastian Junger refers to the force of a cyclone now called the Perfect Storm, a moniker which emphasizes the rarity and power of the storm. It existed in late 1991, and had effects from Puerto Rico to Nova Scotia, nearly 2,000 miles apart. It is perhaps most notorious for sinking the Andrea Gail, all hands down. She is portrayed in the movie The Perfect Storm as having battered monstrous seas, until succumbing to a swell so large that her attempt to ride it over failed halfway up the crest. The article covers all aspects of the storm, from its origins to its impacts on land and sea, and from the research that followed it to its influence on literature and cinema. Hurricanehink is responsible for a vast majority of the content, but with such an important and substantial article in question, we've decided to make this a joint nomination to even out the workload. Juliancolton (talk) 19:40, 9 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Confirming co-nom, as well as this being a wiki-cup nomination. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 19:41, 9 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
By the way, we're aiming for this to be featured by its 20th anniversary this Halloween. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 03:52, 11 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
To drum up some interest, I left some notices on the various WikiProjects that are associated with the article. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 22:22, 17 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - a historic cyclone, both in terms of meteorological origin and impact. The article is well written and engaging, and it looks like an excellent piece of work.

One tiny suggestion: The Naming section being placed in between the Warnings and preparations and the Impact sections strikes me as a bit of an odd sequence. Perhaps it would be better to conjoin the latter two and move the naming bit in front or behind them (preferably behind)? ★ Auree talk 19:49, 9 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yea, that's a good call. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 20:11, 9 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Source review - spotchecks not done. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:34, 11 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Check formatting of quotes within quotes
  • FN 6: publisher is Environment Canada
  • FN 9, 12: page(s)?
  • Be consistent in how multi-author works are formatted
  • Be consistent in whether authors are listed first or last name first
  • Check wikilinking in citations
  • FN 20: newspaper? Nikkimaria (talk) 01:34, 11 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Media Review Everything is fine. If the image of the Coast Guard ship happens to be online, a link would be awesome, but this is good to go on the image front. Three cheers for NOAA releasing their images PD. Sven Manguard Wha? 10:07, 11 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Eeny bitty suggestion: create North Beach, Massachusetts, so the article doesn't look as, er, red. HurricaneFan25 16:55, 19 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

To be honest, I'm not really sure where the source was referring to, or else I'd link to a county or something. A Google search doesn't help much, either. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 23:57, 19 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support All in all, a fantastic read and a worthy FA. HurricaneFan25 00:21, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Comment: A very nice and informative article. I have one minor nitpick, and that is with the opening sentence in the lead: "...was an unusual nor'easter which absorbed one hurricane and ultimately evolved into a small hurricane late in its life cycle." The wording I've bolded strikes me as confusing and unclear. Any chance of clarifying or re-writing it to make more sense? Melicans (talk, contributions) 23:47, 21 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Better? --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 01:36, 22 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Not much. I guess my issue with the wording is that it seems odd the storm could absorb a hurricane but stay a regular storm. It sounds like a hurricane evolved into a hurricane, which doesn't really make sense. What happened in between? Did it stay a nor'easter or a hurricane? Was it another storm entirely? I'm admittedly not an expert on storm naming conventions, but there needs to be another sentence in there I think. Something like "...was an unusual storm formed by the merging of a nor'easter with the remnants of Hurricane Grace in the Atlantic Ocean/on the Atlantic Coast. The storm evolved into Category 1 hurricane late in its life cycle." Something like that seems to read better to me (though as I said I'm obviously not an expert on any aspect of the subject matter). Melicans (talk, contributions) 02:23, 22 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Well, it's only the first sentence. I believe the rest of the first paragraph explains it sufficiently. I don't want there to be too much detail right off the bat, either. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 01:33, 23 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I've gone ahead and changed it myself. It isn't about adding extra detail, it's about making sure that the prose is clear and understandable, an FA requirement. "...absorbed one hurricane and ultimately evolved into a small hurricane" is neither. It's a small difference, but I honestly feel that it is much more legible now. Melicans (talk, contributions) 02:24, 23 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, what you changed isn't quite true. It wasn't a merger, it was a pre-existing dominant storm that absorbed another. It now mentions that it became a hurricane twice in the same paragraph. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 02:32, 23 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Your change was inaccurate, sadly. The hurricane wasn't formed by the merger strictly, but simply enhanced by it. I'll work on it. Juliancolton (talk) 02:33, 23 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

  • " of 75 mph (121 km/h)," (lead) vs "75 mph (120 km/h)" (infobox) vs "75 mph (120 km/h)" (body)
  • Moratorium is a dab link.
  • Authors ought to be last, first.
  • Should page numbers of over 999 use a comma? E.g. ref 9, p. 2686 -> p. 2,686.
  • Ref 22 - with a name like The Telegraph, you need to link it and/or add a location as well.
  • Staff Writer -> Staff writer, why would Writer be a proper noun?

The Rambling Man (talk) 17:38, 24 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Alright, ask and you shall receive. The only thing I didn't address were Moratorium (which I believe someone else fixed, since it doesn't go to a dab now) and the page numbers, which I feel looks better as 2686 (and not 2,686). I haven't read a 1000+ page book in a while (Harry Potter maxes out in the 800s), but I checked the dictionary and they have just "XXXX" (no comma). IDK if that's a good rationale, but I don't like the look of the comma for that :P --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 00:24, 25 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support sorry it took me so long to get back to you. Nice work. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:44, 28 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comments. As always, feel free to revert my copyediting. Please check the edit summaries. - Dank (push to talk) 17:26, 26 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • I don't see any serious problems yet, I'm just doing some light copyediting.
  • "then-President of the United States George H.W. Bush": This is a mouthful, and IMO "United States" is either redundant or should have been mentioned earlier ... that is, I think it probably doesn't need mentioning, but if it does ... if a significant number of readers won't understand by this point that this sentence refers to the US ... then that should have been mentioned earlier. - Dank (push to talk) 17:34, 26 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Offshore New York's Long Island": I changed it to "Off the shore of New York's Long Island"; I also use "offshore from", later in the article.
  • Some changes I made in Meteorological history: towards -> toward (per Chicago 5.220); At around this time -> Around this time.
  • "It had an unusual retrograde motion for a nor'easter, beginning a set of meteorological circumstances that occur only once every 50 to 100 years. Most nor'easters affect New England from the southwest.": I don't follow ... are you saying that nor'easters that approach from the east occur only once every 50 to 100 years?
  • "Along the southern New England coast, the gradient was 70 mbar (2.1 inHg)." Are you saying this was the difference in pressure between say Providence and NYC? If so, it might be better to say that.
  • "Offshore the United States": That doesn't tell me much. Maybe try: "East of [state]" - Dank (push to talk) 19:26, 26 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "advanced warning": Garner's is of the opinion that this is flat-out wrong; "advance" is the adjective that means "in advance". However, Garner's also gives an example in which "advance warning" is redundant, since all warning is in advance. Nevertheless ... I'm open to arguments that "advance warning" has been used so much that it's aquired a special meaning in meteorology ... has it? - Dank (push to talk) 19:36, 26 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "providing information emergency service offices as well as the media.": ?
  • Some changes I made in Preparations and naming:
  • "However, the public showed skepticism at the warnings, not recognizing its threat.": The public however was skeptical and did not recognize the threat.
  • "The timely warnings ultimately resulted in a fairly low death toll": The timely warnings ultimately lowered the death toll ["Resulted" is a tough word to get right ... Don't avoid it entirely, but give it a hard look every time you want to use it.]
  • "Nine counties in Massachusetts, including Suffolk County and Boston were declared", "Bar Harbor, Maine": commas after Boston and Maine. See WP:Checklist#second commas.
  • "U.S. Department of Commerce, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration NWS Natural Disaster Survey Report": Another mouthful. Is it important that NOAA is in the Dept of Commerce? I figured the interested reader can find out by clicking, and delete the Dept of Commerce bit. - Dank (push to talk) 19:59, 26 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "amongst": among, per Chicago 5.220. - Dank (push to talk) 20:10, 26 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Thanks a lot for the copyedit. I removed "of the United States" with regards to Bush I. With regards to the 50 to 100 years, it was the overall system, including the absorption of the hurricane, the retrograde motion, and the epic waves along New England. I clarified about the gradient, as well as the "offshore the United States" bit. I changed "advanced warning" to "adequate warning", as you're right, it's redundant. I didn't know about the second comma! As for the mouthful about the report, I just simplified it to "Natural Disaster Survey Report". No need for fanciness. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 20:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • You bet.
  • Some changes I made in Impact:
  • "The total without power was much less than Hurricane Bob": The total without power was much less than for Hurricane Bob
  • More second commas.
  • "off of": off, per Chicago.
  • "one of which also observed a record wind report.": and one observed a record wind report.
  • "Offshore, the United States Coast Guard rescued at least 25 people in the height of the storm": The United States Coast Guard rescued at least 25 people at sea at the height of the storm
  • [Oops, I've gotta run ... if any of these didn't save, please make the changes]. - Dank (push to talk) 20:33, 26 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
These look good, thanks for getting to them! Juliancolton (talk) 20:41, 26 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Sure thing. - Dank (push to talk) 23:14, 26 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The vessel left Gloucester, Massachusetts, to the waters off Nova Scotia.": Did they head for the fishing banks off Nova Scotia and not arrive, or did they get there?
  • "Sometime thereafter, the Andrea Gail sunk while returning": "sank", and "Sometime after that" may not be necessary ... but I assume we know when the first debris arrived and we can at least estimate a range for when the boat sank. - Dank (push to talk) 23:14, 26 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sorry, I'm running out of time here, I won't explain the changes I'm making from here on, but feel free to ask. - Dank (push to talk) 02:28, 27 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'll explain this bit because it's tricky: I left "then-President George H.W. Bush", but removed the "then-" from Governor Florio. The reason: former presidents are more often referred to as "President" than "former President", so the "then-" is needed for clarity. Former governors are just former governors :) - Dank (push to talk) 02:34, 27 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • The article ends this way: "In Puerto Rico, waves of 15 ft (4.6 m) affected the island's north coast, killing one person who was swept off a rock. Storm damage there prompted 32 people to seek shelter." It's pretty well established that even FAs don't have to end in a bang ... but 32 people seeking shelter seems quite tame compared to the rest of the article. My call would be to remove that sentence ... "swept off a rock" seems like a better ending to me.
  • Support on prose per standard disclaimer. These are my edits. - Dank (push to talk) 02:54, 27 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Awesome, thanks for the look through! Yea, I never think about ending with a bang, so good call about switching to the rock death. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 14:07, 27 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Nine counties in Massachusetts, including Suffolk County and Boston, were declared states of emergency, as well as two in Maine."—a county can't be declared a state of emergency; perhaps "a state of emergency was declared in ..."? Also, Boston is in Suffolk County
  • I also notice "referred the system" (instead of "referred to the system"), "three day period" (should have a hyphen); please check the prose. Ucucha (talk) 15:02, 30 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Oops. Fixed these, and going through it again. - Dank (push to talk) 15:33, 30 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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