Transparenter
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- If you have a question that is not one of the frequently asked questions below, check out the Teahouse, ask me on my talk page, or click the button below. Happy editing and again, welcome! Rasnaboy (talk) 09:59, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
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Svante Pääbo background as dual-nationality edit
Stop calling Svante Pääbo Swedish-Estonian, it misleads the readers. In all the references used in the article he is presented as a Swedish scientist and we have no ideas about his own thoughts on being part Estonian. This is something that you should not speculate about in an encyclopedia as you just did in your edit summary here:[1] That takes you to the original research territory. You have been told about MOS:ETHNICITY, you do not add any other nationality or ethnicity in the lead unless they are part of what makes the subject notable. Pääbo is known for his research in paleogenetics, not for having an Estonian mother and he is not an Estonian citizen. Also, you are dealing with a BLP here and you are adding unsourced material into the article by claiming him to be Swedish-Estonian. Having an Estonian parent doesnt automatically make a person view themselves as being part Estonian or give them an Estonian identity. You need a source to support this claim otherwise this is a violation of the BLP policy, something we take very seriously. I was just about to revert your edit when an other user did so and if you put that back I will have to report you. Shellwood (talk) 08:52, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
- I've created a more appropriate heading title since "October 2022" is either void of meaning, or gives the impression that this is an official warning when in fact all we have done is come to a dispute. I note your points, and for this reason I have changed the wording as you will see to now present it in the fashion of other articles where a national of one country has a full or partial background of another country. --Transparenter (talk) 12:04, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
- Related to above, please don't revert good faith edits as "vandalism". This is a legitimate content dispute, not vandalism, and the IP user had pretty rationale. Politrukki (talk) 10:58, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
- It was an IP and no evidence that he demonstrated good faith. Removing sourced information looks like vandalism. Transparenter (talk) 18:50, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
- Actually people have been giving you reasons for reverting you all along in their edit summaries. Unfortunately you don't seem to understand the guidelines pointed out to you above. Bring your case to the talk page and start a discussion there, find some good arguments of why we should disregard established guidelines and get consensus for them, until then leave the article alone. This is getting disruptive now. Shellwood (talk) 21:06, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
- His ethnicity is supported by sources and when an anon blanks information as such it is normally vandalism. Either way, I don't see it as having been good faith. Transparenter (talk) 21:21, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
- Hi Transparenter, I am now the third!?! editor to advise you that it is NOT about his ethnicity, whatever that might be. It is about ONLY nationality belongs in the LEAD sentence. What questions do you have about that? Also, we have talk pages so this kind of "dispute" can be resolved civilly without editors just reverting endlessly which is considered edit warring and ends in accounts being blocked. What questions do you have about this point? Please go to the subject's talk page and make your case there for your preferred version and we all can discuss it there. Sounds ok? Thank you, --Malerooster (talk) 21:47, 8 October 2022 (UTC) ps, you actually might be in the right here, I haven't been convinced of that yet, but you need to make your case with reliable sources on the talk page and gain consensus, otherwise you are being disruptive, as Shellwood pointed out, and you can be blocked for that reason.--Malerooster (talk) 21:50, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
- Hi Malerooster, and thanks for the message. Yeah I've read MOSBIO and this one is a bit "two ways" if you see what I mean. Pääbo was born in Sweden for sure, and probably knows little of his own Estonian heritage given his father's background is proper Swedish. But he does have his mother's surname (as he was extra marital) and his name with the ää combination is distinctly Estonian so I believe it is a good idea to get it out of the way as early as possible, even if we mention it again later in the article. --Transparenter (talk) 21:59, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
- No, I don't see what you mean. Ethnicity, religion, or sexuality should generally not be in the lead unless it is relevant to the subject's notability is ONE way. How is that two ways? Please explain that. Its NOT a good idea to "get it out of the way as early as possible" since this goes against our manual of style for biographies. Please look at how 99.98% of biographies lead sentence are written. Also, please discuss this at the article's talk page and make your point(s) there so others can discuss. Thank you, --Malerooster (talk) 22:34, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
- Hi Malerooster, and thanks for the message. Yeah I've read MOSBIO and this one is a bit "two ways" if you see what I mean. Pääbo was born in Sweden for sure, and probably knows little of his own Estonian heritage given his father's background is proper Swedish. But he does have his mother's surname (as he was extra marital) and his name with the ää combination is distinctly Estonian so I believe it is a good idea to get it out of the way as early as possible, even if we mention it again later in the article. --Transparenter (talk) 21:59, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
- Hi Transparenter, I am now the third!?! editor to advise you that it is NOT about his ethnicity, whatever that might be. It is about ONLY nationality belongs in the LEAD sentence. What questions do you have about that? Also, we have talk pages so this kind of "dispute" can be resolved civilly without editors just reverting endlessly which is considered edit warring and ends in accounts being blocked. What questions do you have about this point? Please go to the subject's talk page and make your case there for your preferred version and we all can discuss it there. Sounds ok? Thank you, --Malerooster (talk) 21:47, 8 October 2022 (UTC) ps, you actually might be in the right here, I haven't been convinced of that yet, but you need to make your case with reliable sources on the talk page and gain consensus, otherwise you are being disruptive, as Shellwood pointed out, and you can be blocked for that reason.--Malerooster (talk) 21:50, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
- His ethnicity is supported by sources and when an anon blanks information as such it is normally vandalism. Either way, I don't see it as having been good faith. Transparenter (talk) 21:21, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
- Actually people have been giving you reasons for reverting you all along in their edit summaries. Unfortunately you don't seem to understand the guidelines pointed out to you above. Bring your case to the talk page and start a discussion there, find some good arguments of why we should disregard established guidelines and get consensus for them, until then leave the article alone. This is getting disruptive now. Shellwood (talk) 21:06, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
- It was an IP and no evidence that he demonstrated good faith. Removing sourced information looks like vandalism. Transparenter (talk) 18:50, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
- Related to above, please don't revert good faith edits as "vandalism". This is a legitimate content dispute, not vandalism, and the IP user had pretty rationale. Politrukki (talk) 10:58, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
No that was not vandalism, it was very much in accordance with guidelines and good faith. The IP editor quoted the same guideline as I and many others have done[2] and your reply just proves that you dont understand what we keep telling you. Shellwood (talk) 09:22, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
- When an IP has something to offer, it is fine by me. When their only intention is to join edit wars then they are disruptive, and anyone would have been doing fine to revert this IP. If they persist, I will ask for page protection. --Transparenter (talk) 18:30, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
Date formats edit
Hello, please take a look at MOS:DATETIES, the Manual of Style section that I linked in my edit summary:
- Articles on topics with strong ties to a particular English-speaking country should generally use the date format most commonly used in that nation. For the United States this is (for example) July 4, 1976; for most other English-speaking countries it is 4 July 1976.
Since Dollar Loan Center is a U.S. topic, we use the U.S. date format. 4 July 1976 is not a commonly used format in the U.S. Toohool (talk) 21:54, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
- OK. Transparenter (talk) 03:51, 8 October 2022 (UTC)