User talk:The Four Deuces/Archives/2020/February
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Social democracy (economic theory)
Hi, what would you think of a Social democracy (economic theory) article that is specifically about the paradigm developed by socialists and implemented by parties across the political spectrum in Western Europe and the United States following the Second World War, replacing neo-classical liberalism
, although not only [...] the policies of socialist parties between 1945 and 1975 or 1980, but also [...] the policies pursued by conservative, liberal and Christian democratic parties in the same period
as well as Bismark's State Socialism and the economic theory of the modern welfare state? We could discuss the differences and reasons for its adoption such as the Swedish Socialist Democrats, who thought that if people were healthy, well-educated and had a decent standard of living, that they would seek to develop a socialist society. They did not consider the welfare state to be socialism but a necessary condition for its development
; and non-socialists who adopted it for ethical or moral reasons, fear of the socialist revolutionary wave in the 1910s–1920s and the Communist threat represented by the Soviet Union, or both. Social democracy (disambiguation) would serve as disambiguation.--Davide King (talk) 03:10, 17 January 2020 (UTC)
- talk, I would like to see a source that defines and names the topic first. Social Democrats were not the only drivers of the paradigm btw. There was social liberalism in the UK, ordoliberalism in Germany, dirigisme in France and the New Deal in the U.S. I think it is better known in academic sources as the social liberal paradigm. Obviously Bismarck's state socialism was a precursor and should be mentioned. TFD (talk) 15:41, 18 January 2020 (UTC)
- Sourcing isn't my best, so I hoped you could help with that. Oh, I know about all that, but it was my understanding that they were all influenced by social democracy, especially Bismarck's State Socialism. I don't know about you, but I couldn't find anything for the social liberal paradigm, or maybe I didn't search well (hence why my problem with sourcing). I think it would describe the economic theory of the welfare state and of social welfare as adopted in the late 19th century and in the 20th century; one could say social liberals are political liberals and economic social democrats (in this social democratic economic sense, not in the socialist sense of an evolution from capitalism to socialism). I would also really appreciate if you could expand and improve Economic liberalism.--Davide King (talk) 01:58, 20 January 2020 (UTC)
- I don't know of any in depth sources. Bismarck may have been influenced by Ferdinand Lassalle, but he never provided any ideological justification for the welfare state. It is probable that it developed in different places with different ideological justifications. But I haven't seen any comparative studies. It seems that the welfare state was inevitable once society became urbanized, hence different justifications were used, depending on the political identity of whoever implemented it. TFD (talk) 11:00, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
It seems that the welfare state was inevitable once society became urbanized
, that's true and I think that's why social liberalism was the natural evolution of this development and not necessarely a deviation from classical liberalism or any liberal principle, really. Anyway, I think we kind of already have an article about this, it's called Social corporatism. Do you think you could improve it and expand on that?--Davide King (talk) 19:12, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
- I don't know of any in depth sources. Bismarck may have been influenced by Ferdinand Lassalle, but he never provided any ideological justification for the welfare state. It is probable that it developed in different places with different ideological justifications. But I haven't seen any comparative studies. It seems that the welfare state was inevitable once society became urbanized, hence different justifications were used, depending on the political identity of whoever implemented it. TFD (talk) 11:00, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
- Sourcing isn't my best, so I hoped you could help with that. Oh, I know about all that, but it was my understanding that they were all influenced by social democracy, especially Bismarck's State Socialism. I don't know about you, but I couldn't find anything for the social liberal paradigm, or maybe I didn't search well (hence why my problem with sourcing). I think it would describe the economic theory of the welfare state and of social welfare as adopted in the late 19th century and in the 20th century; one could say social liberals are political liberals and economic social democrats (in this social democratic economic sense, not in the socialist sense of an evolution from capitalism to socialism). I would also really appreciate if you could expand and improve Economic liberalism.--Davide King (talk) 01:58, 20 January 2020 (UTC)