Seanviola

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re: Spam

just wanted to let you know i registered an account as seanviola so you can respond through that if it makes it easier -Sean- 18:19, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Hi Sean, now that I see that the links all lead back to the marvel.com site, then it's probably not as bad as I thought. A marvel.com link is relevant; most times when people add their company links to lots of websites, then it's an issue, because it becomes spam. So I guess it's not too bad, though it officially fails WP:EL, in that linking to your company is off limits. Just to let you know, though, someone else might take up issue with the links; but as for now, I don't have a problem with them personally anymore. Thanks for getting back. -Patstuart^{(talk)(contribs)} 18:28, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Yeah I just figured it would be okay since anybody who is looking, say Bendis, up can link to Marvel and find out what comics it is that he wrote. Also, how would I have replied to your reply to me rather than coming to your page and starting another discussion thing. Sorry, I'm new to the interactive part of the wikipedia experience -- usually just scour for odd info. -Sean- 18:33, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

You can click the edit button at the top of your talk page, or the top of my talk page, and you can edit the whole page. Also, there's at the heading for each individual subject, you will notice an edit button; that usually makes things easier so you don't have to scour the whole page. Cheers. -Patstuart^{(talk)(contribs)} 18:38, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Actually, these many links violate Wikipedia external-link policy, which prohibits links to sites whose "primary purpose is to advertise or sell products or services." These links each go to the Marvel Comics catalog, listing products for sale. I'm afraid Wikipedia considers this linkspam, and they're being reverted. I know there are a lot of Wikipedia policies, and no one can be expected to know them all. I'm curious: Given that these pages have no real biographical information and just contain promotional blurbs for various Marvel collections, are you someone who works at Marvel? -- Tenebrae 23:50, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

To be honest, coming back into this discussion, I feel a little bit bad because I feel like I've mislead you a bit. To correct myself, I didn't think it was a problem linking to the Marvel site when it was obviously a Marvel comic (e.g., Captain Marvel (Marvel Comics)); however, some of the links are more spammy (e.g., Orson Scott Card, whose links to Marvel aren't quite as important as a purely Marvel author). I realize that it might be breaking the rule to allow these links, but I thought that was OK in view of the fact that several of these Marvel characters actually didn't have a link to the Marvel website, and the provided link was helpful (see WP:IAR). However, for authors whose contributions to Marvel are more minimal, it qualifies more as spam. I hope I'm being clear, and I hope you don't feel too mislead. Patstuart^{(talk)(contribs)} 04:26, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

No, I understand what you are saying. The idea in the case of someone like Orson Scott Card is that people who like his books are not generally going to be aware of his comic work and that providing a link to the place where you can see some his other writing (in this case comic book writing) would help to make them aware of even more of his output. Does that make the links more useful?-Sean- 14:51, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia external-link policy prohibits links to sites whose "primary purpose is to advertise or sell products or services." --Tenebrae 14:57, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

I was also wondering about how I make the new message banner disappear from the main page because I have viewed the message but it still is there when i refresh or leave the site and come back to it. -Sean- 15:22, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

I understand you're an intern and want to do well; I've been there. But the site is labeled a "catalog" right in its URL. It lists suggested retail prices and when available in stores. Are you saying it's primary purpose isn't to advertise products or services?

Would you expect to see an ad for Disneyworld on the Encyclopedia Britannica page for "theme park"?

Everyone's been polite and informative with you about this so far. I really think that if you continue, we're going to have to initiate a block procedure on this name/IP. You're certainly not endearing Marvel to any Wikipedia editors right now, who are having to take the time and effort to continually speaking with you about this. The best thing you could do is to voluntarily remove the disallowed commercial edits and to please understand that this is an encyclopedia.

Trust me, please, Sean: You're not making Marvel look good, and just engendering resentment at the extra non-paid, labor-of-love workload you're creating for other people. --Tenebrae 19:21, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm not trying to make anything difficult for anyone, I did not realize that my questions were bothering you, I was just looking to find out whether or not these links were acceptable. Putting Marvel aside, on a personal level I do not want to aggravate anyone on the behind the scenes side of wikipedia as I find it too invaluable a tool for my own personal uses. Again, all I wanted was to engage in a simple dialogue (and I didnt mean for you to get involved in it, i was talking to patstuart) over the legality of the links that I had posted to the website. Thanks for your time. Wikipedia prevails.-Sean- 20:10, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

The questions aren't the issue. The issue is having to quote the policy three times even after providing a link.--Tenebrae 21:09, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

To make the banner disappear, all you have to do is click on the new messages or your talk page. It will go. Or it may be that your IP address has a new message, and you need to check that while you're logged out. -Patstuart^{(talk)(contribs)} 19:26, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

The links

The links have been removed as per WP:EL. Someone may add them back at a later time if they find them to be relevant. I apologize for any inconvenience, but the rules clearly state that a company should not link to itself. Thanks anyway, and I hope you stay to conribute. :) -Patstuart^{(talk)(contribs)} 00:53, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

No, they haven't. There are many, many, many still here. Go to Seanviola's "User contributions" list here, start at Jim Lee, go up to Jim Shooter, and keep going up. Are either of you going to do the right thing? --Tenebrae 01:15, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Gil Kane

I've noticed you adding linkspam again to advertise Marvel. Please stop. You are creating an unfair workload for me, Patstuart and other of us unpaid, anonymous volunteers. That is not right. --Tenebrae 16:38, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I thought a place to get desktop wallpapers of art by your favorite artists wouldn't be link spam but a nice resource -- its not trying to sell them anything -Sean- 16:40, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

While I'm not sure of the usefulness of your contributions (I personally thought several of your links were useful before), what is clear is that WP:EL prohibits placing advertisements to your own company; as a result, it isn't allowed. And placing a link to wallpaper at your own site, for which one must register to look at, specifically is advertising, and certainly looks like an attempt to sell something. Specifically also from EL, "any otherwise valuable sites are of limited use to most readers because the site requires registration or a paid subscription". Thanks. -Patstuart^{(talk)(contribs)} 16:47, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Ah yes, I forgot that you have to register to download the wallpapers. I am auto-login so I do not get the password requirement. I will remove the offending wallpapers. -Sean- 16:52, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Block/Ban request

As required, I'm posting to inform you I have contacted an Admin to request a block or a permanent ban. You have created hours -- literal, 60-minute hours -- of work for me, Patstuart and others. And I don't believe that you care, since you did not rv any of your linkspam, as we've asked you to do. --Tenebrae 16:50, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm glad to see I was proven wrong and that you've been reverting the linkspam. Thank you. I've notified the Admin that you're behaving responsibly, so hopefully, everything's back to status quo. --Tenebrae 17:12, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Hey man, I'm just trying to do right by the comic book enthusiasts looking up info on wikipedia. I'm not malicious enough or interested enough to do something like spamming. I just wanted people to know that if they like, for example Gil Kane's work on the old Ghost Rider stories, that they can get a copy of the Essential Ghost Rider for only 17 bucks rather than probably hundreds of dollars in costly back issues. That's basically my whole purpose for this, I'm sorry. I just really think Wikipedia is one of the best things on the internet and wouldn't want to hurt what you guys have going here. -Sean- 17:27, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

For future reference, Tenebrae, WP:AIV (or WP:AN/I, but usually not for linkspam) is the best way to handle any complaints, not going directly to an admin, unless the circumstance is extraordinary (e.g., there is a backlog of 20 names on AIV). -Patstuart^{(talk)(contribs)} 17:20, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

This all just looks like you had a misunderstanding. Links to the marvel site are OK, but not links directly to the catalog. I understand Tenebrae's frustration since I've had to spend hours reverting things like this before. As for consumer information, Wikipedia is an encyclopedia nad not a consumer guide, and so that sort of information does not belong. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 17:34, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good. Thanks. -Sean- 17:36, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

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