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new article?

hey, saw you are filling in some bio updates etc. for the May basho. Thanks for that. I don't really mind at all doing the other stuff. I have been stressed lately and I actually find it relaxing. Are you able to see sumo on any medium lately? Anyway, b/c Hakuho clinched so early I was paying a lot of attention to Juryo this time around, which can often be quite exciting as I know you know. Anyway, I started up this: User:FourTildes/sandbox 3. What do you think? Juryo is considered pro so it meets the notability standard. I figured if we use it, I would leave the "list of sumo champions" as is, but put a wikilink to the juryo list. I would also link it to the pages of any rikishi who has won juryo and anywhere else applicable. In tweaking terms, I am thinking of taking out the "number of yusho" number after the name unless said wrestler has more than one win b/c so many wrestlers have only won it once. The zensho yusho bolding is also possibly dubious as it happens so very rarely in juryo (which is really something if you think about it). Any thoughts, reservations? FourTildes (talk) 21:28, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

hey, I have been making a master list of juryo winners which I then copy into the article and just in case I have also been adding their winning record like so:

2010-5 Bushuyama 11-4 (2)
2010-3 Kimurayama 11-4-P (2)
2010-1 Gagamaru 12-3
I have done this for every wrestler. I initially got the idea as something to replace most rikishi not having the number of wins next to their name. But I was also thinking it might be interesting information to add. What do you think? Too cluttered etc.? This might also mean we would feel the need to put this info into the makuuchi winners list, which would also be cluttered, but it might not look half bad there either..? I have always thought just a number of wins (or nothing at all) after a rikishi's name looked kind of plain. I can live with it like it is, just wondering your opinion. FourTildes (talk) 20:53, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Actually, I changed my mind about adding their records. That info can be seen elsewhere if someone wants it. Yeah, guys like Asashoryu, Chiyonofuji etc. were on their way thru the divisions as more of a stepping stone. A juryo championship almost seems incidental and often only seems to happen to guys who have to stick around in it a while. FourTildes (talk) 20:53, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Hi. Thanks for going in and adding to the list! After the list started filling up with more inevitable red links I started slowing down. I think the list should eventually go back to at least 1958 for completeness. FourTildes (talk) 12:16, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

You are now a Reviewer

Hello. Your account has been granted the "reviewer" userright, allowing you to review other users' edits on certain flagged pages. Pending changes, also known as flagged protection, will be commencing a two-month trial at approximately 23:00, 2010 June 15 (UTC).

Reviewers can review edits made by users who are not autoconfirmed to articles placed under flagged protection. Flagged protection is applied to only a small number of articles, similarly to how semi-protection is applied but in a more controlled way for the trial.

When reviewing, edits should be accepted if they are not obvious vandalism or BLP violations, and not clearly problematic in light of the reason given for protection (see Wikipedia:Reviewing process). More detailed documentation and guidelines can be found here.

If you do not want this userright, you may ask any administrator to remove it for you at any time. Courcelles (talk) 23:31, 15 June 2010 (UTC)


thanks for the active et al updates. My new job is keeping me very busy, but I will try to make some time on the weekend (probably Saturday) to update wrestlers if you don't get to them before then. thanks again. FourTildes (talk) 20:00, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Haku and Tai records

So, probably because the whole scandal thing is such a downer I thought it might be good to acknowledge Hakuho's winning streak by putting him on the list. It seemed Taiho deserved some recognition too (especially since the poor guy lost on a mistaken call!). It seemed they should be on the list regardless as they are considered tied for number 3 if you only consider the modern era. I should have cleared it with you first as you started the list (and it does get a lot of attention I think). If you have any issue with my additions, let me know. We can always revert/clarify. FourTildes (talk) 22:23, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

I like that some pre-1909 era guys are in there. yes, there are arguments for not counting them, but there are arguments for counting them, and anywhere we can keep in some of the older guys from sumo's thousand year history, I think we should do it. I have already jumped on all Hakuho's updates for his yusho and win 46 btw. Surprised nobody beat me to any of them. FourTildes (talk) 10:40, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Bobbye Hall

Binksternet (talk) 04:40, 17 August 2010 (UTC)


Have you seen that external link added to the Wikipedia:WikiProject Sumo page? I wasn't sure what to do (if anything) about it. It seems to be a good source for keeping track of sumo related changes, but it also seems to be the guy's personal site. It is really of little use to me (and I expect you) because I have most if not all of that stuff watchlisted anyway. I wish he had at least asked for consensus/permission first. What do you think? FourTildes (talk) 00:29, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

I see now. It was the personalization of the page(s) that threw me off - Tim1352's page or something like that. No, I had never known of this fascinating tool. I surprise myself with the things I miss sometimes. I had my old User name to check out on this site as well. So, is there a way I can automatically have all the articles with the WP:SUMO banner on my watchlist without adding them manually? I looked into it myself but didn't figure anything out. FourTildes (talk) 22:13, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

OK, thanks. I looked around at your helpful link and found some other interesting stuff anyway. ~~~~

the gamut

The demotions (and necessary promotions) from all the gambling fallout certainly made editing the active list more interesting and time consuming than usual! Ran the gamut, as they say. FourTildes (talk) 22:15, 31 August 2010 (UTC)


So when Hakuho took number two in consecutive wins, I started working on a small idea that has been in the back of my mind. I think, to better compare win streaks over time, it might be cool to put in a duration column into the consecutive wins table on sumo records (at first I toyed with the idea of making it a sortable table, or making two tables, but an extra duration column seemed like the least obtrusive option). I used a site I found to calculate the duration between two dates and then added a "duration" column to the consecutive wins table. Here is my User:FourTildes/sandbox where I tried it out. What do you think? I think it might be a good way to recognize what a feat it was for wrestlers of old. Sure, the dates are there, but nobody bothers to do the math I suspect. What do you think? It is your call, because you made the records article (which I think gets a lot of attention considering how fast edits are for new record breakers. FourTildes (talk) 23:13, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

I have decided to go ahead with it, but I won't have a problem with reverting if you have reservations. FourTildes (talk) 00:15, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for the Sokokurai fix and tweaks. Interesting dilemma with the consecutive table. I am definitely of the mind we should keep the table, I think it would be a "loss" to change it to only modern era wrestlers. You could make two tables as you did with win percentages, but it might not fit so well because of the extra duration column which I added (and changed as per your suggestion). I was thinking you could make the "extra" entries like Tachiyama et al's "difference" stand out by putting asterics next to their ranking number like so: 2* or alternatively after the number of wins, and then put a footnote directly below that explains it better. Nobody who commented said, "that's wrong", they just clarified it. I leave the final call to you of course, but that's my two pence. Hope you are finding some way to watch some sumo! FourTildes (talk) 05:58, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Funny, after I took another look at the table to tweak the duration column, I started to think the same about how if Hakuho keeps streaking it might become a moot point. We have probably jinxed Hakuho talking like this (though I am starting to hope for an upset before I get too bored). Yeah, I didn't know the Chinese factoid either. FourTildes (talk) 12:15, 20 September 2010 (UTC)


hey, just made an article for Sokokurai from China, complete with an updated pic (as compared to the one I put up on his ja:wiki article. For some reason his stats table is overblown. I thought it was because his picture is larger, but no adjustment of the pic seems to change it's size. When you get a minute, would you mind checking it out for me? Thanks. FourTildes (talk) 00:14, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Just noticed now how much you had done to polish up the Sokokurai article. Thanks for that. He definitely seems like a worthy addition to the "with articles" list. FourTildes (talk) 03:31, 28 September 2010 (UTC) I knew that "Trivia" sections are frowned on, but I got some or all of that info from the "Episodes" section in his article (which are ubiquitous) and it seemed inconguous to include such info in his Career section. Your edits look well integrated though, thanks again. FourTildes (talk) 03:42, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Spoiler Discussion

Dear User,

You previously participated at the discussion regarding the collapsing of spolier's at Talk:The_Mousetrap. I invite you to comment at a similar discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Spoiler#Proposal.

Many Thanks

Seddon talk|WikimediaUK 22:09, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

how again?

How do we properly record someone who was on the banzuke, but didn't participate in any bouts, ala Masatsukasa, I couldn't think of an example wrestler off the top of my head to use. No hurry. FourTildes (talk) 08:41, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, I thought that was it, but I was thinking maybe there was a way to put the rank and kyujo if they were actually on the banzuke. FourTildes (talk) 10:55, 27 September 2010 (UTC)


I updated Gaga as if he had always been there w/o even realizing you had just put his article up! I didn't get it until I saw your wp:sumo edit! It seemed so natural that he should have had an article, that I just breezed on by with his basho update like he had always been there. Thanks again. Now I'll go and talk a longer look : ) FourTildes (talk) 06:14, 28 September 2010 (UTC)


Saw your Takatoriki update. Saddens me. His gutsy 15 day trip to his only yusho was the tournament that truly made me love sumo. I wish he could have gone done in history for that alone.. Hope his yakiniku place does well. He better screen his customers well. FourTildes (talk) 04:26, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

recent updates

hey, thanks for filling in the holes where I missed stuff and the career updates etc. Not sure how I missed all those "K" makuuchi wrestlers' banzuke updates. I must have gone away for a while and when I came back I started too far down the list. I saw your stones addition. I thought it might be overkill at first, but it looks so unobtrusive that I figured why not? I actually thought I might try going to the Fukuoka basho because I had four days in a row off during it (and Fukuoka is the farthest away from Tokyo) but they just moved things around at my job and I probably can't do it. Bummer. FourTildes (talk) 20:30, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Sylvia Noble

I saw your comments on Talk:Sylvia Noble. Thought you might be interested in the fact its been decided to be merged. Harry Blue5 (talk) 13:00, 9 November 2010 (UTC)


Yeah, your hunch came thru, too bad Hakuho couldn't have waited one more win so that there would be no way to question your consecutive list. I would honestly rather Futabayama's streak stand. Equaling Tanikaze's centuries old record was just enough. FourTildes (talk) 13:04, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

on updating

In the middle of updates I noticed you slipped Kotokasuga and Okinoumi in there. This is the first time all makuuchi wrestlers have had an article in ages, no? I actually thought about making a Kotokasuga article as M7 is pretty high, but I wanted to see how he did first. Okinoumi seemed less of a good bet, but he managed to squeeze out a hard fought win against Toyohibiki (who could've taken juryo with the win!) for his kachikoshi; sounds like he might be a keeper. FourTildes (talk) 12:55, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I jumped ahead to do Kaio, b/c I am as thrilled about his new found energy as anyone, but I saw you updated him. I suspected it was you, b/c you actually updated everything, and not just his tourney record. : ) I see you also did the record updates; I am glad you did that as I was curious to see how Kaio's new numbers were looking. With this newfound energy a couple of those no. 1 records no longer look at all out of reach... FourTildes (talk) 13:09, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

on sign off

Using Realm of Shadows (talk) 07:39, 21 December 2010 (UTC) has become a force of habit, I have minor ocd tendencies so seeing a line of them on my history and one without would irk me a bit.

You are of course free to carry on doing it if you wish, but as it is both unnecessary and odd-looking, you will continue to get users questioning you about it!--Pawnkingthree (talk) 12:58, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Ending the Michael Jackson edit War

Unfortunately the current edit war over the album type is rather sad but it is most certainly intolerable. Please visit Talk:Michael (album)#End the Edit War - Studio vs Compilation and part-take in the attempt to find a final resolution. -- Lil_niquℇ 1 [talk] 18:39, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Wakakoyu up

You would have discovered it yourself soon enough, but Wakakoyu is up. I gave him a look and it seems he was really on his way until the gambling scandal gave him a wallop. I think/hope he'll be around for a while. It looks nice having no red links again I think. If Kaisei does well, I may do him early, as he is a pretty nice guy (met him once or twice). Anyway, the reason I bothered posting here is because I noticed Waka's Japanese article doesn't count his suspended Nagoya M8 rank as his highest. I wondered if this was controversial, but even his JSA article counts this as his highest. Any problems with listing the M8? Also, if you get time, I left the fighting style section for you. I am no good at writing these; but the addition of it will also allow his tourey table to stop getting squeezed by the infobox. :) Also, I have started to follow juryo more regularly for some time now and am seriously thinking about starting to list juryo tourney scores for the wrestlers currently active (and maybe eventually past wrestlers). It wouldn't take all that much longer for the regular updates, and juryo, as we have discussed, is considered "pro" level. What do you think? I will probably regret even thinking about it once I am off vacation again, but I do think it is worth considering. A section name change would be in order of course. "Sekitori record" or "Pro record". I of course wouldn't expect you to take on any of the workload if we did start showing juryo records. Anyway, enough rambling... 4Tildes (can't find the tilde on this keyboard.

hiya PK3, many thanks for sprucing up Wakakoyu's articles in more ways than one. I really appreciate it. FourTildes (talk) 03:41, 2 January 2011 (UTC)


Erm, something's up with Aminishiki's tourney table. Let me know your take on it when you have time. FourTildes (talk) 03:49, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Ah, sorry, I was trying to be tongue-in-cheek and say I'd gone ahead and changed the template and wondered if you were happy with the results. I should have just said it straight out, irony and all that don't work nearly as well online... Anyway, Aminishiki is the only one I have added for juryo, as a test (though of course, Towanoyama's changed automatically). I am glad you are happy with the results. Having said this I don't know when I'll get around to adding jyuryo scores, and my vacation is coming to a close...but at least the template is in place if/when jyuryo gets added. Does the section title - delinked of course :) - work for you? I am a little surprised and relieved my template edit went so well, on the first try as well. Your tweaking always seems to have gone smoother than mine. Hope you enjoyed the new year festivities. FourTildes (talk) 21:12, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Glad it all looks okay. Your simpler section title works fine for me. I'll change Aminishiki's to that for now to remind myself. FourTildes (talk) 07:18, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

The/the Beatles

Yes folks, it's here again. Please look at this link [1] and leave your vote. I thank you.--andreasegde (talk) 08:07, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

always liked the Beatles

I prefer a lower case "the" but... so you might have heard the Haru basho is canceled? :) I am pretty jaded about the whole thing (maybe you are too with as little editing as either of us have done recently?) Anyway, I figured the canceled basho should at least be recorded at some point on the tables. Are you the one who added the "Suspended" code to the English template? Did you or someone port it from the Japanese or...? Anyway, I have noticed you have more of a head for the code stuff*, and I was wondering if you had thought about it? We could also wait until someone on the Japanese end makes up some code and we could port it over. Whichever. FourTildes (talk) 11:15, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

  • The way I got the Juryo record code working like the Japanese wiki was by copying over the Japanese template wholesale and then substituting the English terms back in again...

no worries

Yeah, I figured I had to get back to life. I am sure you can guess what has been distracting me all this time. Still not sure how I feel about it, but am willing to ride it all out for now. I have more than a few friends who left Japan never to return... Anyway, I figured helping out a little was the least I could do. And of course, for some reason, it is the mass updating stuff I like more. FourTildes (talk) 12:17, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

May "banzuke"

Hey, thanks for updating the active list. You snuck that in on me! I missed it because you seem to have gotten them all in in one edit. I am not careful enough to get it all right the first time through, always some clean up. I just passed up a chance to be there for the first day, but will be there for a day or two here and there. FourTildes (talk) 14:16, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

Yes, leaving those guys on the list, does seem weird. The only thing I can think of is that they didn't want to promote anymore wrestlers just because slots opened due to a scandal (as what happened in the b-ball scandal), so they are just in there as place holders. Still rubbing out only the guys who insist on their innocence seems unfair - whether they are guilty or not. FourTildes (talk) 21:07, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for all the updates! Been busy.
Again, got up this morning and thought I would take my first look at the banzuke and maybe do some updates, but it looks like you've taken care of them. Cheers again! FourTildes (talk) 16:25, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Hey, see you had to fix Kaio's record updates. I knew I (and possibly others) would get something wrong, so I decided to leave it up to you - records article was your brainchild anyway, and as Kaio was the only one moving in it, it seemed you should be the one to do it. See you cleaned up things I forgot on his article too. Thanks. Too bad he had to fall forward into his last record. That seems to be his nature. FourTildes (talk) 02:13, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

Oh, right, I saw someone created a Kaisei article. I might try to spruce it up. They used his sumoreference picture with some limited use license. Is that going to work I wonder? FourTildes (talk) 02:17, 20 July 2011 (UTC)


As an FYI, I moved the Akebono article back to Western order.

MOS-JA says clearly that all post-Meiji 1 names are in Western order.

While many sumo names are stage names, even stage/nom de plume names are affected by MOS-JA (Yukio Mishima)

But in this case Taro Akebono is his real name WhisperToMe (talk) 06:18, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

  • For the other ones I won't move them myself - I would have a Wikipedia discussion on them.
  • If it's not treated as a surname (like how "Mishima" is the surname of Yukio Mishima), but only as a title, then MOS-JA does not mandate that the names be switched
  • WhisperToMe (talk) 03:26, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Sep banzuke

Hi, I did check out the latest banzuke out of curiosity, though I won't have any time to do updates until this weekend. I am sure I will happily find the time to do it then. So you can do some or no, depending on your schedule. No worries. I did give Takanoyama a tourney table, just b/c it is interesting that he might be the only wrestler who "qualified" for a tourney table AFTER he got an article. Though I have kept my eye on him for years, it is the recent upheavals in sumo (and yes, an improving record) that have sky-rocketed the guy so high. FourTildes (talk) 20:37, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

I see you are doing some updating, thanks. Thanks for putting Takarafuji in the backup section, forgot to paste him in there. When I went to check, I realized I'd also forgotten to paste Kakizoe into makushita after I'd demoted him. Probably would have missed that for a while. Did you and the rest of NJ hold up well through Irene? FourTildes (talk) 12:25, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

win/loss records

hi. Actually I took a short trip to Korea on the last day of sumo. I managed to catch the last few bouts on the big TV in the airport. When I got back I saw somebody had filled in all or most of the basho records. I was actually sitting down to update the infoboxes when I saw your message. I was thinking it was troublesome but was going to do it anyway; it had not occurred to me to consider eliminating them. Giving it some thought, I don't see why not. The tourney tables present records in a way I haven't seen on other sites - if I do say so myself :) - but the win/loss records are available in the same format at any number of sources. So, I'm all for it. Retired wrestlers could of course keep theirs, and when someone retires we could add it back in. If you have already updated them this time, we can wait until the end of the Kyushu basho to take them out. And of course, I suppose we should get a consensus from the other - for lack of a better word - contributors about this to avoid looking/being draconian. I'll put something up - feel free to edit it for clarity or niceness, as you are the more diplomatic of the two of us. FourTildes (talk) 23:36, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

Looks like the vote for rm'ing the win/loss records is unanimous. ;)

I suspect one maybe two people might notice when we actually start removing them. They might even go to wp:sumo and then notice the "debate" about it. FourTildes (talk) 14:56, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

new rikishi article

OK, you've inspired me to write a Tochinowaka article, thought I'd give you the heads up as on the off chance you might start one of your own. He seemed the most likely candidate - 3 bashos, 9-6 record at M7. FourTildes (talk) 22:18, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I kinda thought that was part of your "plan" :) but it was good timing b/c I was free and in the mood anyway. I found out some interesting things about Tochinowaka anyway. Did not notice what a strong performance he has had up to this point. Also, I can't remember, it it okay to source Japanese articles for Eng wiki? I lifted material from his jawiki article, but did indeed also check it's sources and add a few extra tidbits from there. But anyway, I can't remember if it's verboten or not. FourTildes (talk) 04:32, 15 October 2011 (UTC)
Ah right, you'll see it for yourself anyway, but as Tochi's makuuchi record is strong but short, I thought I might as well use all the copied jawiki tourney table as it could catalog his short, steady rise. FourTildes (talk) 04:36, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

went a little haywire

Got more inspired after Tochinowaka and started trying stuff out. Putting all of T-waka's record in made me start thinking about integrating other wrestler's complete or juryo and up records. This also necessitated putting in lower division championships. I think I found a non-invasive way to do it, but I thought I should let you know before I went too crazy. So far, I have done some additions to Bushuyama Aran Takamisakari and Tochinonada. If this flies, I may tweak the Green legend at the bottom of every table to read "top division champion" rather that just "champion". I may even try that now just for the time being. FourTildes (talk) 07:21, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

Forgive! I updated the legend table below in two places, can you see where? : ) And, I can't stop myself and have added full records to a number of other wrestlers. I think the way "Champion" is written for lower ranks looks acceptable if not quite nice; keeping the grey lower divisions theme while still being distinguished from the green yusho mark for the makuuchi division that most people (and records) pay attention to. I noticed the Spanish version of our table (see Kotooshu for example) has reverse engineered with wiki markup and also uses green for lower ranked yusho, but it looks confusing and misleading to me. I have already added Kotooshu's full record (b/c of his fast rise anyway) and all the current juryo active wrestlers. Again, forgive me for not waiting for feedback! If it's any excuse, you inspired me by hinting we should make a new rikishi article or two. :) FourTildes (talk) 08:38, 15 October 2011 (UTC)
I was hoping I hadn't gone too far. Actually, I finished all of the juryo and below wrestlers (not nearly as many as there used to be with all the dismissals) so their current rank can always be seen below and doesn't have to be tweaked in the infobox. I also did Asashoryu's and Taiho's, but this probably makes his table problematic as it now runs into the pre-1958 era, and I can't find any references that confirm exactly where basho were held in the 5 tournament a year era. FourTildes (talk) 20:39, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
Takayasu Akira has been up for a week or so (sans photo). Wasn't sure if you'd noticed. When you get time a fighting style section would be cool (they always round out otherwise articles well, especially shorter ones). No hurry of course. I think I might have had a picture of Takayasu, but I was lazy about backing up (uncharacteristic of me) and lost a few months worth of photos recently. I will try to get one soon.

I don't listen to gossip that much, but I had heard some things. I had heard something about wrestlers getting a ritual beating if they didn't get kachikoshi. Ironically I have never been to Naruto stable even though it is within walking distance of the school I have worked at for close to two years now. You would think it was more than luck that has brought a good number of Naruto wrestlers into Makuuchi. Maybe the oyakata was doing at least something right. It is funny how some people seem attracted to tragedy and death. I learned about the oyakata b/c somebody jumped in and edited in his death, followed by about two others. Seems to have garnered more interest than Shogiku's promotion in some respects. Weird. FourTildes (talk) 19:58, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

"Free as a Bird" proposed lede change

FYI, there is a vote taking place here and your input would be appreciated. — GabeMc (talk) 03:00, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

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