PJT1957

Your submission at Articles for creation: Christchurch Dragon has been accepted

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Robert McClenon (talk) 01:31, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Magnum Bonum Potato (November 12)

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Theroadislong (talk) 15:18, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Draft:Magnum Bonum Potato

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Mudeford

Hi PJT1957, Nice to see another Christchurch resident on Wikipedia (I make that four now). Do you have a reference for the information you recently inserted[1] into the Mudeford article as the current one doesn't support it? I thought the first permanent coastguard station was built in 1863 on Fisherman's Bank and that prior to that the coast was patrolled by revenue men stationed at Christchurch Barracks. I could be wrong of course, it's a long time since I did any reading on the subject. Penbat, do you recall anything? Best regards--Ykraps (talk) 20:18, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

Hi Ykraps, Thanks for your welcome. I'm just trying to record some of my research into Christchurch's history. The dates for the pre-Stanpit Coastguard Station are derived from a range of sources. Working backwards in time, evidence that the Haven House was employed as a Coastguard Station is recorded here: 1861 Census (Chief Officer: Alfred B Williams); 1851 Census (Chief Officer: Lt Edward Kennett); 1844 Tithe Map (The Mudeford and Stanpit Handbook, Allen White), which confirms that both the Haven House and adjacent row of cottages were held by the “Preventive Station”.; 1826 Hampshire Advertiser: “a little boy, about three years old, son of one of the men belonging to the coast-guard, left his home at the Haven House, and has not been seen or heard of since.”; Pre-1826 National Archives ADM175/2 Coastguard Establishment Books 1816-1819 (Free download) records that the Christchurch Station was established in 1818 with a single Boatman, but its location is not specified. Lt Samuel Umfreville and six Boatmen were appointed to the Christchurch Station in 1822, the year the Coast Guard was created. In January 1822 the Salisbury and Winchester Journal advertised that the Haven House was available to let and I have found no reference to its use as a lodging house after that date, leading to my speculation that it was utilised by the Coastguard from about that date. I have not investigated where the immediate predecessor of the Coastguard, the Preventive Water Guard, was based, but I have newspaper references to the Preventive Boat dating back to 1815. With regard to the Stanpit site, I have newspaper clippings from 1861 that invite builders’ tenders for a Coastguard Station. However, I have not yet found the precise date when the new Station became operational – though I suspect that it will have been mentioned in the Christchurch Times. Kind regards PJT1957 (talk) 17:51, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

I have rewritten the paragraph to make it sound less speculative and incorporated some text from later in the article which was mildly repetitive. I hope you are okay with my edits. I have referenced what I can, can you add the missing citations? Thanks--Ykraps (talk) 10:39, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

Incidently, can I draw your attention to User talk:Penbat#Stour or Avon? If I can get some agreement, I will endeavour to have the file moved.--Ykraps (talk) 10:57, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for your comments. I have reappraised my entry for Haven House and added further details and citations. I have also decided that it merits its own heading (like the other local buildings), and this has necessitated the repositioning of some unrelated paragraphs. I hope this all looks OK. Nudge me if not. I will obviously continue to update this article if better citations are discovered. I may create more headings later (eg: ‘Early history’ and perhaps ‘Shipwrecks’) to cover other topics.

Incidentally, do you have any other references for the 1802 lifeboat and 1809 wreck? Mike Powell’s book does not provide onward references to original sources and I have contradictory information from contemporary reports of the wreck of the Good Intent transport

With regard to the photograph query, as you suggest, this is indeed the River Avon at Town Bridge, looking across at Bridge Place from Convent Walk. Regards, Phil. PJT1957 (talk) 15:10, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

I had already had thoughts of my own about creating a separate section so that's fine by me. I added back the sentence about the newer Haven Inn because I think it helps with understanding that the section is about something else. I Hope you agree. I am afraid I don't have a second reference for the lifeboat or shipwreck. I borrowed Powell's book from the library so I can't check his dates at the moment but will do when I'm next in town. I vaguely remember Hodges mentioning both in his book "The Golden Years" but again that was from the library too and I can't remember which dates he gave, if any. If there are contrary dates we can probably work them in as well and add a footnote to explain. What dates do you have?--Ykraps (talk) 20:11, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

PS Thanks for confirming that is the Avon. I have found other photos describing as the Stour[[2]] and was beginning to think it was me that didn't know the difference!--Ykraps (talk) 20:15, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

I’ve found another reference to the 1802 lifeboat in Michael Hodges’ book The Smuggler: No Gentleman (Page 97) and also in his Occasional Papers in the Red House (Local Studies Resource Room) – but again without reference to the original source material. However, as Michael Hodges says, it seems clear that it was not in service for very long. There was certainly not a privately-owned lifeboat in continuous service until 1962 as the article implies.

The contemporary newspaper reports I have for the troopship wrecked in 1809 say that it ran aground at White Pit Reef, which was a short distance to the west of Double Dykes, and that the rescue was effected by troops from Christchurch Barracks under the command of two named officers. It would therefore be useful to track down the original source of the ‘local fishermen’ account. I’m working on it... PJT1957 (talk) 09:23, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

I can't imagine that I would have phrased it like that, had it not been strongly suggested in Powell's book. I've yet to make time to visit the library but as I said, I will check the wording when I can. Best regards--Ykraps (talk) 16:54, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

Hello. I hope you won't mind my having augmented your research on Haven House with some of my own. I think that the only information I've removed concerns the dispute over ownership of the ground, some of which was formed by filling in the old river channel. The Crown made a claim to this ground, but appears (silently) to have dropped the claim because the river bed on which it was built belonged to Clarendon as lord of the manor of Christchurch, but this doesn't explain why the whole of the Haven House appears in rentals of the manor of Somerford... Docuracy (talk) 12:31, 17 October 2018 (UTC)

Hi Docuracy, Thanks for this notification. I’m broadly happy with the additional information you’ve provided, but I may make some subsequent revisions to restore chronological sequence. I have no doubt that the Haven House fell within the general area of the Manor of Somerford, which had long-been appended to the Priory-held Manor of Christchurch-Twyneham and from 1610 had the same ownership. From 1690 this was Mary Luttrell as referenced in my original submission. In 1815, a perambulation of the Manor of Somerford actually started at the Haven House. I think this explains why Haven House appears in the rentals of the Manor of Somerford. The query then becomes how Clarendon had any claim to the land. Without researching this in detail, I can only imagine this is because of his involvement in the harbour works rather than because he was Lord of the Manor of Christchurch (which, of course, was different to the Manor of Christchurch-Twyneham). @Docuracy: Message text. PJT1957 (talk) 12:19, 21 October 2018 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Red House Museum and Gardens, Christchurch has been accepted

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KJP1 (talk) 06:58, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

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