User talk:MrBark/Archive002

Comments:

Eugene (entertainer)

ok, here's a new one. all the one's i attempt to edit, you follow me around and undo the edits. have you ever even met eugene the korean entertainer? apparently, sites that fans put up are considered valid sources of info so that's why it's footnoted throughout her profile. but back to what i wanted to say, she does NOT speak fluent Chamorro. in fact, if you spoke with her in English she has a slight foreign accent, very slight. i want to see you prove me wrong in this one. i guarantee you there is no official site of eugene that states she can speak Chamorro fluently, so let's not "create" information by pulling it out of your behind.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.252.249.85 (talk • contribs)

You don't seem that quick on the uptake, so I'll try to put this in simple terms: You cannot undo other people's work here without a valid reason. When you change something or remove something or add something, you need to state a reason and back it up with a source other people here can check. Until you follow the guidelines and policies of Wikipedia, this will continue. If you feel that you are being wronged by me, take it up with an administrator. --Bark 14:07, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

SKS2K6 would seem to agree with me. --Bark 14:10, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Howard Stern

howard stern's daughter goes to the washington university in st. louis. her name is not DEBORAH as you densely keep "fixing"; her name is DEBRA. get it straight. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.252.249.85 (talk • contribs)

Cite a source. --Bark 16:01, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

BTW, I have cited my source. In fact, every source I see backs me up. I have not seen any source that backs you up. --Bark 17:57, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

here's my source. http://wustl.facebook.com/profile.php?id=3103925&hiq=debra%2Cstern if you happen to have a facebook account you can look all you want at her profile. if you are as educated as you try to be by looking up your "secondary" sources, maybe you should find a primary source. if you need another form of proof, i am more than willing to send you a copy of our school's student directory with her name in it marked so you don't get lost looking for a "deborah" stern that doesn't exist. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.252.249.85 (talk • contribs)

Not good enough. Can you prove this is the same person through a verifiable source? If not, it can't stand here at Wikipedia. Do you have to have an account to view the web page you cite? If so, it can't be used as a source here at Wikipedia. Read Wikipedia:Reliable sources and Wikipedia:Verifiability. For example, your source fails or lacks in the following areas:

• Reliable sources--Aspects of reliability--Non-scholarly sources--Replicability--Declaration of sources--Confidentiality (since it requires a login)
• Reliable sources--Aspects of reliability--Non-scholarly sources--Replicability--Corroboration (there is no other source that backs up "Debra")
• Reliable sources--Aspects of reliability--Non-scholarly sources--Persistence (personal web pages change)
• Reliable sources--Using online and self-published sources--Self-published sources (laregly not accepted, especially since the edits are on an article that isn't primarily about her)

On a seperate point, John F. Kennedy was called "Jack" by his friends. However, the name of his particular article is not "Jack Kennedy". If she does go by "Debra" she probably does so because it's easier to spell as it's shorter, but every biographical source on Howard Stern (the focal point of the article, not his daughter) lists her name as Deborah. If I had to bet, I would bet Deborah is on her birth certificate. If you can prove that "Debra" is listed on her birth certificate, I'll concede the point. The original, independently verifiable "Deborah" will stand, and it isn't because I consider myself "educated". It's because I can cite a source that everyone can access.

If you are as passionate as you seem to be, you should register a username here at Wikipedia and become a regular contributer. Wikipedia always welcomes new regulars. --Bark 18:26, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Image:Howard Stern Sirius.jpg

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Unspecified source for Image:Russell as Jack O-Neil.jpg

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Orphaned fair use image (Image:Russell as Jack O-Neil.jpg)

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Orphaned fair use image (Image:Daniel Jackson SplitScreen.jpg)

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Pluto

Hades (Αδης) is the underworld. Pluto (Πλουτων) is the name of the god of the underworld, married to Persephone who lives with him half the year. Pluto is repetedly called in ancient Greek literature Hades for the same reason the Kingdom of God is called the Kingdom of Heaven in Christian sources. The Romans took the names of Pluto (and Apollo) as it was, unlike the names of the other gods 85.75.146.50 (talk) 18:25, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

A few examples: But he [Cronus] again bound and shut them up in Tartarus, and wedded his sister Rhea; and since both Earth and Sky foretold him that he would be dethroned by his own son, he used to swallow his offspring at birth. His firstborn Hestia he swallowed, then Demeter and Hera, and after them Pluto and Poseidon. Apollodorus 1.1.5

But when Zeus was full-grown, he took Metis, daughter of Ocean, to help him, and she gave Cronus a drug to swallow which forced him to disgorge first the stone and then the children whom he had swallowed, and with their aid Zeus waged the war against Cronus and the Titans. They fought for ten years, and Earth prophesied victory to Zeus if he should have as allies those who had been hurled down to Tartarus. So he slew their jailoress Campe, and loosed their bonds. And the Cyclopes then gave Zeus thunder and lightning and a thunderbolt, and on Pluto they bestowed a helmet and on Poseidon a trident. Armed with these weapons the gods overcame the Titans, shut them up in Tartarus, and appointed the Hundred-handers their guards; but they themselves cast lots for the sovereignty, and to Zeus was allotted the dominion of the sky, to Poseidon the dominion of the sea, and to Pluto the dominion in Hades Apollodorus 1.2.1

Translated by JG Grazer available at Theoi.com and at Perseus —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.75.146.50 (talk) 18:31, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Since Apollodorus is imperial and one might think that it is Roman corruption to use Pluto here is Aeschylus:

Beware the dogs of Zeus that ne'er give tongue,

The sharp-beaked gryphons, and the one-eyed horde

Of Arimaspians, riding upon horses,

Who dwell around the river rolling gold,

The ferry and the frith of Pluto's port.

Prometheus Bound, Aeschylus (5th century BC) 85.75.146.50 (talk) 18:53, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Apollodorus? Who translated him? That's a problematic citation, as he didn't write in English, and the issue in question deals with the language and translations. Odds are, his work was translated by Roman Catholic monks. If you can find a modern scholarly source, written in English (as this is the English version of Wikipedia), to cite with information such as the publisher, city of publication, year of publication, editor, etc., the citation would be much stronger.--Bark (talk) 20:24, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

That was translated by Sir James George Frazer, it is the 1921 Loeb edition available at Perseus among other places. Here are the two quotes in Greek

Πλούτων δὲ Περσεφόνης ἐρασθεὶς Διὸς συνεργοῦντος ἥρπασεν αὐτὴν κρύφα. Δημήτηρ δὲ μετὰ λαμπάδων νυκτός τε καὶ ἡμέρας κατὰ πᾶσαν τὴν γῆν ζητοῦσα περιῄει: μαθοῦσα δὲ παρ' Ἑρμιονέων ὅτι Πλούτων αὐτὴν ἥρπασεν, [p. 36] ὀργιζομένη θεοῖς κατέλιπεν οὐρανόν, εἰκασθεῖσα δὲ γυναικὶ ἧκεν εἰς Ἐλευσῖνα. καὶ πρῶτον μὲν ἐπὶ τὴν ἀπ' ἐκείνης κληθεῖσαν Ἀγέλαστον ἐκάθισε πέτραν παρὰ τὸ Καλλίχορον φρέαρ καλούμενον, ἔπειτα πρὸς Κελεὸν ἐλθοῦσα τὸν βασιλεύοντα τότε Ἐλευσινίων, ἔνδον οὐσῶν γυναικῶν, καὶ λεγουσῶν τούτων παρ' αὑτὰς καθέζεσθαι, γραῖά τις Ἰάμβη σκώψασα τὴν θεὸν ἐποίησε μειδιᾶσαι. διὰ τοῦτο ἐν τοῖς θεσμοφορίοις τὰς γυναῖκας σκώπτειν λέγουσιν.

ἐπειδὴ δὲ Ζεὺς ἐγενήθη τέλειος, λαμβάνει Μῆτιν τὴν Ὠκεανοῦ συνεργόν, ἣ δίδωσι Κρόνῳ καταπιεῖν φάρμακον, ὑφ' οὗ ἐκεῖνος ἀναγκασθεὶς πρῶτον μὲν ἐξεμεῖ τὸν λίθον, ἔπειτα τοὺς παῖδας οὓς κατέπιε: μεθ' ὧν Ζεὺς τὸν πρὸς Κρόνον καὶ Τιτᾶνας ἐξήνεγκε πόλεμον. μαχομένων δὲ αὐτῶν [p. 10] ἐνιαυτοὺς δέκα ἡ Γῆ τῷ Διὶ ἔχρησε τὴν νίκην, τοὺς καταταρταρωθέντας ἂν ἔχῃ συμμάχους: ὁ δὲ τὴν φρουροῦσαν αὐτῶν τὰ δεσμὰ Κάμπην ἀποκτείνας ἔλυσε. καὶ Κύκλωπες τότε Διὶ μὲν διδόασι βροντὴν καὶ ἀστραπὴν καὶ κεραυνόν, Πλούτωνι δὲ κυνέην, Ποσειδῶνι δὲ τρίαιναν: οἱ δὲ τούτοις ὁπλισθέντες κρατοῦσι Τιτάνων, καὶ καθείρξαντες αὐτοὺς ἐν τῷ Ταρτάρῳ τοὺς ἑκατόγχειρας κατέστησαν φύλακας. αὐτοὶ δὲ διακληροῦνται περὶ τῆς ἀρχῆς, καὶ λαγχάνει Ζεὺς μὲν τὴν ἐν οὐρανῷ δυναστείαν, Ποσειδῶν δὲ τὴν ἐν θαλάσσῃ, Πλούτων δὲ τὴν ἐν Ἅιδου.

As for the relation between Hades and Pluto see Harry Thurston Peck's Harpers Dictionary of Classical Antiquities (1898) [1] and better yet [Hades]. Plato has a very interesting passage on the subject:

As for Pluto, he was so named as the giver of wealth (πλοῦτος), because wealth comes up from below out of the earth. And Hades--I fancy most people think that this is a name of the Invisible (ἀειδής), so they are afraid and call him Pluto. (Plato, Cratylus 6 403, translation by Fowler 1921 again Loeb edition from Perseus) As for the Greek original

τὸ δὲ Πλούτωνος, τοῦτο μὲν κατὰ τὴν τοῦ πλούτου δόσιν, ὅτι ἐκ τῆς γῆς κάτωθεν ἀνίεται ὁ πλοῦτος, ἐπωνομάσθη: ὁ δὲ “Ἅιδης,” οἱ πολλοὶ μέν μοι δοκοῦσιν ὑπολαμβάνειν τὸ ἀιδὲς προσειρῆσθαι τῷ ὀνόματι τούτῳ, καὶ φοβούμενοι τὸ ὄνομα “Πλούτωνα” καλοῦσιν αὐτόν.

I will add the references to the article all-right... 85.74.195.173 (talk) 19:05, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Technical jargon. You have failed to not only make a compelling argument, but you have failed to follow Wikipedia policies and guidelines. Please take this topic to the article talk page. Perhaps you can get someone else to agree with you. I mean, it's not like I'm picking on you. MissionControl's edit reinforces the Roman usage. Also for continuity, please register a username. Your IP addresses shift. --Bark (talk) 21:22, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Beyond_the_Law_DVD_Cover.jpg

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Republican template

Thanks I actually wanted to avoid editing Ron Paul's entry; sorry about that. Thanks much for fixing and for posting on my talk. -Justin (koavf)·T·C·M 00:21, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

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San Juan settlers

Saw your revert of my "original research" edit, but tell me - does your source say if those other 24 settlers arrived AFTER Cutler settled on the island and his pig got shot for trespassing in British potatoes? Because that's how I remember it - Cutler had moved to the island to "make a point" and wa the first and only at the time the conflict began, and then other settlers came along to shore up the new expansionist landgrab (movingh onto an island with a clear British military presence was, I'd say, a deliberate provocation). Anyway, please clarify - were they there when the pig got shot, or did they take up the cause of throwing off "British tyranny" once the conflict had begun? I'll be looking in various BC-side sources - American versions of PacNw history are very often distorted to justify the expansionist agenda.....Skookum1 (talk) 15:15, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, OK, I've just been browsing British Columbia: From the Earliest Times ot the Present, Vol. II by Scholefield & Howay, c.1905 and on p.303 it says that by the end of July in 1859 there were twenty-nine settlers....still haevn't gotten to the particulars of June, though...the earlier parts of the chapter btw the explore the various customs conflicts which presaged the actual "war"..Skookum1 (talk) 15:49, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

OK about p. 310 or so the phrase "among the American settlers was Lyman Cutler".....I'll have to attribute my misunderstanding to more recent histories than Scholefield & Howay that boil down events to simplicities and, ahem, favour the British imperialist side ;-) (or, more pointedly, the arch-Canadian ant-Americana side).Skookum1 (talk) 16:04, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

I would guess records are spotty before the incident, so there probably isn't a census for June. The July count was probably initiated by the incident itself. However, since the time between the shooting and July is only two weeks, and we have two documented sources saying the number was in between 25 and 29, we should just go with those numbers. I've worded it to say "mid-1859". British/Canadian imperialists can read that and think the Americans moved to the island in response to the shooting, and the American imperialists can think they were there before the shooting. LOL. --Bark (talk) 16:57, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

I recommend you read the whole chapter cited; it's fascinatingly detailed account, with stuff I never expected to find about other things than this dispute, e.g. the Boundary Commission deployments, Gov. Douglas' various diplomatic and non-diplomatic behaviour, and more; I've read most of Vol. I already due to other articles/topics, will proceed now with Vol. II....Howay & Scholefield try to avoid jingoism while still making snide comments here and there about things like "that unreasoning multitude known as the American public" ;-). Their four-vol set is one of hte main magnae opi of BC/Northwest history, deeper than Begg and the Akriggs and not quite as partisan as Bancroft (who is very anti-British in spots). Anyway, back to the read....I find so much stuff on various topics thats' too lengthy or involved for me to try condensing, easier to leave refs on talkpages for others to work up later, and in less voluble spews than I could probably manage; I've got too many damn thingso n the boil as it is.....haven't noticed, are you a regular editor at Pig War? I'm thinking, given what I noticed in Howay & Scholefield, is that the Boundary Dispute as such shoudl be broken off from the "war" article, in the same way that Nootka Conventions, Nootka Crisis and Nootka Sound ahve been separated....Skookum1 (talk) 17:21, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

It's on my watchlist, mainly for the vandalism. "Pig War" attracts a few goofs. There's always the running dispute as to whether the pig counts as a casualty. I believe I was the first one to cite sources on it too. I'm glad to see it developed even more since then. The recent map editions are fantastic. I was fascinated when I first came across the article. I've always liked side-note, historical episodes like this one. --Bark (talk) 17:27, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Stargate

Hello, MrBark/Archive002! Your username, as well as the usernames of other members of Wikipedia: WikiProject Stargate, has been moved to the inactive members list, as part of a process for update the activity of the wikiproject. If you would like to continue to be an active member, please follow the instructions on the top of the participants page to add your name to the active participants list. Thanks! – sgeureka t•c 16:45, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Template:Shuttle Stats

I just used the stats that were on each of the shuttles Wiki page which is up todate as of the last flight. I am sure I got it all but I may have missed some. Also I don't know if it got onto the List of Shuttle Missions page, which was my motive to update the template.--Navy blue84 (talk) 00:48, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Pacman_Jones#Requested_move_to_Adam_Jones_.28football.29_revisited

I would like to solicit feedback concerning moving this to Adam Jones (football). It makes sense to me, but is there consensus? Please opine in the section of the article talk page. Cheers, Dlohcierekim's sock (talk) 21:05, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

West Virginia State Penitentiary

Hi, I noticed you undid my edit to West Virginia State Penitentiary. All I did was change one of the categories from Category:Defunct prisons in the United States to Category:Defunct prisons in West Virginia.

All of the states now have their own Defunct prisons category which separates old prisons from current operational prisons. I have reverted your edit, but please contact me if there is a problem Bleaney (talk) 18:56, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

I have reverted the changed that you have undone back to the numerical data I changed. The proper citations were already listed, I only changed the data from which those citations now show. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.62.184.176 (talk) 13:42, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

My bad. -Bark (talk) 15:59, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Ares IV

you recently reverted an edit and left a vandalism warning on User talk:81.96.246.118. on closer inspection, the alleged 'vandalism' appears to be both a good faith edit and correct - if you can provide a cited source that all plans for the Ares IV has been definitively cancelled, plese add this information Jw2035 (talk) 06:35, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Please contact me

(And of course erase this section if you wish ...)

Re: STS-27R on the Space Shuttle Atlantis page undo: Please send me e-mail at gandalf@digital.net ... Explaining the history of the shuttle flight numbers is a royal pain except in e-mail.

Thanks.

Ken Hollis —Preceding unsigned comment added by GandalfDDI (talk • contribs) 22:41, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

re:Lonesome Dove

Greetings Bark!

I recently came across a table of awards you made at this article, but something didn't make sense to me. The article Lonesome Dove is about the book, but the big awards table you made contained awards won by the MFTV miniseries. I took your great table, and moved it to Lonesome Dove (film), which despite its name is the 1989 miniseries for which all of those awards were won. I wanted to let you know in case you ever go looking for it, and also wanted to give you a chance to give me a heads up in case I missed something in moving it. Best of luck in your editing! LonelyBeacon (talk) 00:59, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

No problem. I understand, and thanks for the heads-up!--Bark (talk) 13:20, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Renault Formula One crash controversy

Hi, Re your edit and the summary you left, I can confirm that we in the United Kingdom do spell tyre that way. I've added a template to the article talk page so other editors will know in future that the article is written in British English. Mjroots (talk) 20:43, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the info. I had a sneaking suspicion that was the case, looked it up, went to change it back, but you had beaten me to it. Oh well, I wasn't fast enough. --Bark (talk) 20:52, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

No damage done, keep up the good work. Mjroots (talk) 20:54, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Edit war on Pig War

There is currently an edit war at the above-linked article over the plural of "cannon". As the article's primary editor, and the one who added the information about the above-mentioned weapon to the infobox, I thought I should inform you. Interchangeable 21:57, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

West Virginia State Penitentiary

Trivia is trivia. If you don't like the title than REMOVE the trivia. "In Cultural Whatever..." is just a "wiki politically correct" name for, yes, TRIVIA. My point is ...Call it what it is, or delete it. If Wikipedia "discourages" trivia, than don't include trivia. But if you *DO* include trivia, quit playing word games, call it what it is. If you object to the title "Trivia" than why do you accept... TRIVIA ... in the article? Remove it or accept the true and accurate name. Thanks, I enjoy polite and constructive discussion, and you have been polite and constructive. =//= Johnny Squeaky 01:51, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm not against "trivia". Wikipedia collectively decided that the TITLE "Trivia" led to people not taking Wikipedia "seriously" as a source of valuable information. So they "outlawed" the *name* "Trivia" but kept including it as "In Cultural Whatever". This is disingenuous, and really quite silly. Call it what it is. As I said, I'm not against "trivia", I find it interesting information that is indeed sometimes valubel. But call it what it is... Thanks for yout time and input. =//= Johnny Squeaky 17:54, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

I apologize if I put words in your mouth, but in your first post you said to call it what it is or delete it, especially if Wikipedia discourages it. Wikipedia does discourage it, so I deleted it. Are you taking issue with the deletion?--Bark (talk) 18:05, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Bypassing redirects

Hey, I just want to let you know that there's generally no need to do something like [[bloodless war|bloodless conflict]] if bloodless conflict already redirects to bloodless war. The rationales are given at WP:NOTBROKEN. Thanks. wctaiwan (talk) 09:58, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Really? When I first started editing, that's what you did for wikilinks. Oh well. Thanks for the heads-up.--Bark (talk) 14:53, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Pig war

Not going to get involved in a verbal war on this because you removed my edit. In my view I was just tidying up a conflict between two wiki articles. Stands to reason that in Royal Navy parlance a Captain is outranked by a Rear Admiral, therfor Baynes was the key figure on the Btitish side not Hornby. However if you want let wiki "rules" get in the way of the facts ........ Wasozed (talk) 09:55, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

The Pig War February 2015 Reply

1) It wasn't meant as a joke 2) It summed up the opening explanation of the pig's role for clarification at the end of the opening summary... 3)...as I was expecting it to, but didn't see... 4)...and in barely half a sentence, as if that takes up too much space 5) I didn't change any casualty list, as I afterwards was surprised to read that people had been doing as a joke for years 6) I didn't think anyone would care much about this page, considering how extremely unheard of this incident is... 7)...I like to think I've been trying to learn about all kinds of history for a long time, and surprised I'd never heard of it 8) Sandboxes are for kids 9) So cool down there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.79.44.191 (talk) 23:17, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Your account will be renamed

Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Bark. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Bark~enwiki that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name. If you think you might own all of the accounts with this name and this message is in error, please visit Special:MergeAccount to check and attach all of your accounts to prevent them from being renamed.

Your account will still work as before, and you will be credited for all your edits made so far, but you will have to use the new account name when you log in.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Yours,
Keegan Peterzell
Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation

22:29, 19 March 2015 (UTC)