User talk:Mlaffs/Archives/2015/December

Daytime-only radio Template Idea

Hey Mlaffs, I took a look at the {{Daytime-only radio}} template and it is insane. Which is why, admittedly, I never used it. Far too much information all packed into one template.

What if we broke that down by state and territory? Something like {{Daytime-only radio stations in STATE}}? This way, the original template can just be directing template to state templates, kinda like the {{USRadio2}} template. Then, the state templates can be easily read and information found. Sound good? - Neutralhomer • Talk • 03:54, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

I bump into the template from time to time, particularly lately as I've been making updates for station sales. One of the things I try to do when making those changes is also look to make sure all the linked templates are actually included in the article and/or represent the current format. Amazing how much that's not done. This was one of the templates I found not included in articles A LOT. There's no value in a navbox if it isn't included in each article for navigation, so I added it everywhere it was missing today.

Breaking it down into separate state templates is an interesting idea. However, if this one is turned into a template listing the various state ones, I'm hard pressed to think where it would actually get used anymore. It's not like there are list articles to drop this at the bottom of.

Here's a different spin to consider - what might it look like if we kept it all in the one template, but sorted the call sign section into the various states? And then we removed the frequency section? That'd cut the size of it about in half. Also, it should probably be coded into an auto collapsed state, so that it doesn't look so overwhelming on articles where it's the only template included.

Or, here's a different different spin on it. While the policies say that lists, templates, and categories can all exist alongside each other - and even duplicate each other - maybe this would be better handled as a category rather than a template?

This is how my idea would look (with freqs, COLs and calls). Of course, that is in no way all the daytime-only stations in Virginia, but it gives you the idea. We could drop the different rows (freqs, COLs, and calls) all together and go all one link like this. Either way, the info would be split across many templates. Easier to read and understand and of course, easier for the reader to find what he or she is looking for.

To cover all bases, we could do a category as well. Category:Daytime-only radio station in STATE or Category:Daytime-only radio stations in the United States (to differentiate between daytime-only stations in other countries). - Neutralhomer • Talk • 04:58, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

I like the second option, which showing call and COL together - seems to make more sense to treat it like the format navboxes than the market navboxes. I definitely like the idea; again, I just don't see what purpose the original one will serve anymore. And maybe it won't, which is fine - that might be up to a deletion debate to decide someday. In terms of the category, I think country-level is fine. Mlaffs (talk) 05:07, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

The original template would serve kind-of like a national template, linking all the state templates. That way it could be put at the bottom of the Clear-channel station page instead of all 50+ state/territory templates. I could be going a little far on that one and if we do away with the original, I have no problems with that either. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 05:17, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Creating the templates would be the easy part. Do you want to take Alabama to Missouri (1-25) and I'll take Montana to Wyoming (26-50)? I can take DC and the territories as well. Those are easy. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 05:20, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Hey, I'm gonna go BOLD and begin creating these templates. I'll add them to the pages as I go. I'll take the information directly from the FCC website. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 06:51, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Oh no - I understood what the original template would get turned into. I just couldn't visualize where it would end up getting used, but that explanation makes a lot of sense - thanks! Happy to share the load on creation, but I'm working today. Won't be able to tackle it until tonight. Mlaffs (talk) 11:59, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

I misunderstood, I thought you were meaning you didn't know what the original template would be used for, not used on. My goof there. :)

I'm going backwards from Wyoming up, skipping the territories (those will be one big template). I just finished with Ohio. Check Category:Daytime-only radio stations by state templates before you begin and you'll be able to see which templates have been created and which haven't.

Just a heads up, there won't be a template for Vermont. While there is one daytime-only station, WTWN, the article is a redirect to Moody Radio. So no use in creating a template for a redirect. Have a Good Day...Neutralhomer • Talk • 14:07, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

I got Missouri to Wyoming done, plus one for the US Territories. Alabama to Minnesota (plus DC) are all yours. I didn't get the all states template (what is replacing {{USRadio2}}) done, but that shouldn't be tough. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 01:22, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

Nice work! I've done Alabama and confirmed there are none in Alaska, but I'm alternating between the gym, this, and doing some work from home tonight. You're perhaps a little quicker than I'll be. :>) Mlaffs (talk) 02:22, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

By the time you posted the above I had long since crashed out for the night. :) I am up early today, so after running some errands, I will keep on going. I did add the templates you created to their respective pages. Take Care. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 13:58, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

Sorry I haven't gotten to any of the other states. Past couple days have been tough. December 1 was the one-year anniversary of the passing of our dog, Ozzy (yes, named after the rocker). Been pretty down the past couple days. Doing better today, so I am going keep going later on today. Take Care...Neutralhomer • Talk • 10:43, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

Sorry to hear that man, and no worries. I wasn't expecting you to be picking up my slack anyway. I knocked off a few more on Tuesday, and I'll be able to get to more tonight - fitting them in around the rest of life. Luckily, there's no time limit on this! Mlaffs (talk) 11:53, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

That's the sucky part of life, people and pets aren't here forever. I added the templates you created to their respective pages. I created the others (except one) and added those to their respective pages. The only one I didn't create is California. Reason being is my TMJ is acting up something awful tonight. 30.30 barometric pressure isn't helping matters. Plus, the room keeps spinning due to my jaws pressing on my eustachian tubes. In short....wheeeee! :)

If you can create the California template, I can add it to the respective pages in a bit. Going to lay down for a bit. :) Oh and I will put the WPRS and state WikiProject templates on the talk pages....so no worries there. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 00:35, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

Nice work, man. I've taken care of California, so I guess the set is done, although I feel like I let you down a bit. To be honest, I'd looked at DC and Idaho as I was working on these and decided to bypass them — didn't see a lot of value in a navigation box that only has one entry. You've done them, so no worries, but I wouldn't be shocked if someone down the road throws them up for deletion on that basis — certainly something I've seen plenty of times before. I'm also going to go back to the original template and mark down the information on the defunct stations; think it's probably worth adding them into their respective states, which I can take care of. Mlaffs (talk) 02:56, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

You didn't let me down. Life happened, so it's no worries. It gave me something to do to take my mind off things (at least until the TMJ-induced migraine). Again, no worries. :)

If the one-link templates are put up for deletion, I can always put those in one big template for one-link templates (like the US Territories one).

I was thinking about adding the templates to the defunct stations, but wasn't sure it was needed since they were defunct. I will add the templates to the respective pages as you update them. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 05:11, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

I just looked at the California template and there were WAAAY less stations than I expected. I figured there would have been 5 or 6 rows of them, not just 1. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 05:14, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

Could we put the Category:Daytime only radio stations category within the templates, so they pop up automatically? That way you and/or I don't have to put them on each and every page? - Neutralhomer • Talk • 13:04, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

That'd be an old school way of doing it, but about 5 to 6 years ago there was a policy change made that templates shouldn't be used to auto-populate categories. I don't remember what the rationale was in the end, but there was some pretty healthy debate at the time. I'm actually about halfway through doing that anyway - I'm up to the Minnesota template.

Oh, and to keep you in the loop, I went through the old template last night to do a double check that each of the stations in it had turned up in one of the new state templates. Ended up being a few in the old template that weren't actually daytime-only anymore, a few that were defunct and hadn't been moved into that section, and one that changed call signs back in 2012 and hadn't yet been renamed. But there were a handful that were missing in the state templates, too - mostly situations where the nighttime authorization was only planned or a construction permit, or where the station had separate daytime and critical hours authorizations but no nighttime authorization. I've slotted all those in now where they were missing. Mlaffs (talk) 13:15, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

Didn't know that about the templates. Good thing I didn't go BOLD and add them. :)

I have a doc's appointment this morning, so I will add the missing/added ones to their respective pages when I get back. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 13:27, 5 December 2015 (UTC) 13:27, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

Already done — did it as I went along adding them to the templates last night. :>) Mlaffs (talk) 13:32, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

I thought you meant you added them to the templates but not yet to the pages. My goof there. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 14:07, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

Radio Station Notability RfC

You may want to check this out. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 21:45, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

Review Request

Hey Mlaffs, could you do a peer review of the WABN article for me? I'm wanting to take it to GAN. Thanks in advance. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 10:26, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

I don't know much about the peer review process and what's involved, but I'll look into it when I get home tonight. In the meantime, I've made a few small formatting tweaks, and the timing of one of the sales was off a bit based on the references. Mlaffs (talk) 12:07, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

I'm not looking for a formal PR, just giving the article a once-over. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 14:09, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

OK, then, that I've done, per the tweaks above. Very well referenced — nice work! Mlaffs (talk) 14:52, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

Awesome, thank you! :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 15:14, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

Could you also give the WACL article a once-over (when you have the time), I would greatly appreciate it. I'm wanting to take that one to GAN as well. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 20:36, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

Mail

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- Neutralhomer • Talk • 23:58, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Replied. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 01:23, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Opinion Needed

While I am waiting on the WABN PRs, I am starting the beginning of the FL on the List of radio stations in Virginia page. I tinkered with the look a little, added another field (though that's optional), and tinkered with the references.

I was wondering, which of these looks better? This one or this one? - Neutralhomer • Talk • 03:40, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

I get where you're going but, honestly, I'd say I prefer the first one. I think having the references in every field on every line would turn into a huge schmozz. Having the reference alongside the column heading covers it off for the whole column, and still leaves open the chance to add it for a specific field if that main reference doesn't actually support that piece of information. Having the date established is interesting, but I'd worry it's going to end up blank even more often than format ends up blank today.

For what it's worth, trying to take this to FL I think supports the discussion we had a while back about how much to link on these pages. I think you'll end up wanting licensees linked where possible, and Dravecky's suggestion of an introductory paragraph about formats could work as well (so that they're not linked every time). Mlaffs (talk) 03:58, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

I was leaning toward the first one myself. The second one sounded awesome in my head, then I actually seen what it would look like. The "Established" field is optional, something I am tinkering with, but I am not sure I am going to actually use.

Could you link me to Dravecky's suggestion on formats? The lede and information on Virginia radio is where the tough part is going to come in. But I think I can do it. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 04:07, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Right at the bottom of this page - Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Radio_Stations/Archive_2015. Mlaffs (talk) 04:40, 15 December 2015 (UTC)