Lazt9312

June 2022

Hello, I'm Adakiko. I noticed that in this edit to Democratic Party of Korea, you removed content without adequately explaining why. In the future, it would be helpful to others if you described your changes to Wikipedia with an edit summary. If this was a mistake, don't worry, the removed content has been restored. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. Adakiko (talk) 05:25, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

A belated welcome!

The welcome may be belated, but the cookies are still warm!

Here's wishing you a belated welcome to Wikipedia, Lazt9312! I see that you've already been around a while and wanted to thank you for your contributions. Though you seem to have been successful in finding your way around, you may still benefit from following some of the links below, which help editors get the most out of Wikipedia:

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Again, welcome! Malcolmxl5 (talk) 13:54, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

DPK

" During the early days of the New Politics Alliance for Democracy, Kim Han-gil and Ahn Cheol-soo performed the duties of co-representatives. They took a tough stance in relations with North Korea and pursued harmony between selective welfare and universal welfare. Because they played the role of conservatives in the party,  they faced criticism from progressives inside the party for being 'center-right', and some progressives withdrew from the party. They took responsibility for the defeat in local elections and resigned as party leaders.  Two of them, Kim Han-gil and Ahn Cheol-soo, later joined the right-wing PPP. "

ㄴ I left this in "Ideology." If you erase the fact that I wrote about close to absolute facts from the "ideology" category, this should be removed as well. Mureungdowon (talk) 21:06, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Then, I will also cite and display a few books from Seoul National University in Korea that evaluated DPK as right-wing liberalism. Lazt9312 (talk) 02:59, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

Justice Party and Progressive Party

You argue that the Justice Party is "Centre-left" and not "Centre-left to left-wing". You simultaneously argue that the Progressive Party is not just a "Left-wing" because it is "Left-wing to far-left".

These arguments sound very contradictory to me. Usually, Justice Party supporters do not perceive the Progressive Party as the far left. Progressive Party supporters also do not perceive the Justice Party as a left-wing.

To be clear, the two parties are very close together, opposing the PPP and DPK, being in the same "progressive camp"(=South Korean left-wing camp) and not running candidates together in local elections. The only big difference between the two parties is that their diplomatic views are very different.

So both parties are left-wing parties. But the Progressive Party is not a far-left party because it is not a socialist party. Mureungdowon (talk) 02:24, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Let's settle it through mediation. They seem to have very different positions. In fact, what I want from the Justice Party is a description like Democratic Progressive Party. It is because there are scholars who have positioned the Justice Party in the centrist position on an international basis. Lazt9312 (talk) 12:57, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

What do you think about replacing the DPK faction with a Korean one? (Liberal populist->pro-Lee Jae-myung) like this Lazt9312 (talk) 13:49, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Conservative liberals in the DPK

I was wondering, are there conservative liberals in the DPK? If so, could you add them to the please :) ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 15:05, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

Just read that there are, but needs to be clearer. As the section for conservatives need to be explicit with conservative liberals, as opposed to saying that some members are socially conservative, while economically liberal. ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 15:08, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

https://www.hani.co.kr/arti/opinion/column/928445.html

https://www.aladin.co.kr/shop/wproduct.aspx?ItemId=7584909

https://www.hani.co.kr/arti/opinion/column/1069839.html

https://m.khan.co.kr/politics/assembly/article/202105062104025

Slightly referring to the contents of these articles, there are many socially conservative and economically liberal figures in the DPK. Some experts refer to the DPK as a "right-wing liberal" or "liberal conservatism" by international standards.

In a book written by experts, 'The Radicals in their 20s', it was said that politicians who correspond to the center-right in international standards are located in the middle in Korea. ( https://www.aladin.co.kr/shop/wproduct.aspx?ItemId=287119092 )

This is my position from now on.

In fact, terms such as 'centre-right', 'centrist', and 'centre-left' are rarely used in Korea because of the lack of research on ideology. Also, unlike European countries, politics in Korea is not resolved 'common sense'. In Korea, 'left wing' is not a respected ideology, but is mainly used as a demeaning expression. ( https://www.donga.com/news/Politics/article/all/20190429/95292492/1 ) ( https://www.khan.co.kr/politics/politics-general/article/202212011546011 ) Since leftist/progressive ideologies were 'illegal' during the long military dictatorship in South Korea, centrist political parties are often considered 'leftist'. Lazt9312 (talk) 08:18, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

Actually, they aren't liber conservatives, as they combine conservative policies with socially liberal stances, such as LGBT rights and abortion. ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 12:32, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

In fact, conservatives such as Kim Jin-pyo are not 'liberal conservatism' by European standards, but just 'conservative' right-wing politicians. However, since South Korea is a conservative region whose politics itself is heavily influenced by social conservatism, even Kim Jin-pyo is considered moderate-conservative. Lazt9312 (talk) 13:23, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

Hence the reason I say they are conservative liberals, as they are eco. lib and soc. con. ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 13:30, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

In fact, I think it is difficult to see Kim Jin-pyo as a conservative liberal. I think the defectors from the reformist conservative party are closer to conservative liberalism. Kim Jin-pyo is more of a social conservative.

(He has made statements advocating theocracy and treating homosexuality in the past.) Lazt9312 (talk) 13:39, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

If he's economically liberal, yet socially conservative, then he's a conservative liberal (leaving aside the rhetoric against homosexuals, he's definitely socially conservative). In terms of theocracy, it's sounds like he's influenced by Christianity, to a degree. ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 13:43, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

In fact, conservative liberal politicians look much more reformist than Kim Jin-pyo on international standards, so it is difficult to see them as conservative liberals on international standards. Lazt9312 (talk) 13:47, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

Hmm... maybe he's a part of the Christian right. It wouldn't surprise me as Catholicism is quite large in South Korea. ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 13:51, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

In fact, since there are many conservatives like Kim Jin-pyo in DPK, A number of experts have argued that the DPK is center-right by international standards and placed to the right of the CDU. Lazt9312 (talk) 14:01, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

In order from largest to smallest, who are the largest and smallest factions? ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 14:03, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

I will explain Kim Jin-pyo's political position through the contents of some media articles.

On October 30, 2003, then Deputy Prime Minister Kim Jin-pyo talked about the real estate measures announced the day before, and said, "The only thing more powerful from the government's point of view is socialism." For example, Park Tae-gyeon, a reporter for <Pressian>, criticized this as "absurd remarks" that "made the majority of the people except speculators into reds." It is clear that Kim Jin-pyo's idea does not allow for overlapping space between socialism and capitalism and is based on a dichotomous nominal scale.'

( https://www.pressian.com/pages/articles/93405 )

The Democratic Party Christian Association held an Easter praise service on April 15 at 7:00 am in the meeting room of the National Assembly Members' Hall with about 200 people in attendance, including party members and friends. Thirty-five of the Democrats are Christians. They belong to the Democratic Christian Association. The Christian Association holds a breakfast prayer meeting on the third Wednesday of each month.

On this day, Pastor Kang-seok So delivered a sermon titled 'Let's Become a Theocratic Politician' and told the story of David and Saul in 2 Samuel 7. He said, "After Saul became king, God didn't care about him, but David always consulted with God and pleased God. David's job was a politician. What kind of politician was he? He was after God's heart. He is a theocratic politician,” he said, saying that he wants to become a figure like David.

(syncopation)

Representative Kim Jin-pyo said in his greeting, "I think that only through theocratic politics will we be able to regain the trust of the people and play the role of checks and balances as an opposition party." I will try to do politics," he said.

( http://www.newsnjoy.or.kr/news/articleView.html?idxno=27382 )

Rep. Kim, an elder of Suwon Central Baptist Church (Rev. Ko Myung-jin), had an interview at the National Assembly Members' Hall in Yeouido, Seoul on the 10th and said, "If you look at the distribution of seats in the 20th National Assembly, you can see God's stern commandment to pursue politics of mutual benefit through dialogue and compromise." You can see that it contains the command .” He emphasized that he had an absolute opposition to the poisonous provisions of the Anti-Discrimination Act that advocated and promoted homosexuality. Rep. Kim said, "When the anti-discrimination bill was raised in the 19th National Assembly, I blocked it saying 'absolutely not'." ” he explained.

( http://news.kmib.co.kr/article/view.asp?arcid=0923565254&code=23111111&cp=nv )

The “movement to heal and restore homosexuality and same-sex marriage” mentioned by Chairman Kim refers to the “ex-homosexuality movement” of conservative Christians. The “ex-homosexuality movement” was criticized for considering homosexuality as a mental illness that needs to be treated and mobilizing unscientific medical practices such as “conversion therapy.” In 2016, the World Psychiatric Association (WPA) pointed out that “there is no scientific basis that congenital sexual orientation can change,” and defined the view of homosexuality as a treatment target as “prejudiced and unethical.”

Chairman Kim Jin-pyo, a devout Christian, has been evaluated as having represented the position of conservative Protestants in the political world, such as opposing the anti-discrimination law.

( https://www.hani.co.kr/arti/area/area_general/1043198.html ) Lazt9312 (talk) 14:14, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

In fact, the largest clique is hard to define. The pro-Lee Jae-myung faction has 60-70% support among party members, but 20-30% support among lawmakers and delegates represented by key local figures.

I think that the largest faction may be a faction classified as a pan-pro-Moon Jae-in. Lazt9312 (talk) 14:15, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

So essentially, the party of largely centre to centre-left, though is socially conservative, compared to other liberal parties abroad. However, the party does have a large minority who are conservative, though vary socially from liberal to conservative. Would you say that is a good way to summarize the party? ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 14:22, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

In fact, the current Democratic Party is widely distributed from the center left to the center right, so it would be better to see it as a centrist party. Lazt9312 (talk) 14:02, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

Namu Wiki Pages

Have you considered creating pages from Namu like this one? ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 17:49, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

I think the trustworthiness of Namu Wiki is somewhat low because it is created by consensus of users without the need for evidence. I haven't considered making that much of an English Wikipedia yet. Lazt9312 (talk) 07:47, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

I'd strongly recommend it, as not only does the page have references, but it would improve English Wikipedia by having factions based on individuals, like having pages based on the current factions around various leaders of the current DPK. ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 10:38, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

Okay. thanks for the advice Lazt9312 (talk) 13:19, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

Not just that, I found the Korean Wikipedia page too. ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 13:25, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

thank you. Lazt9312 (talk) 04:45, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

Justice Party - Factions

I object to your editing. Let me refute your sources and arguments:

• https://www.sedaily.com/NewsView/1Z02XFV5YS
  • The source does not mention liberalism(자유주의) or democratic socialism(민주사회주의).

• https://h21.hani.co.kr/arti/politics/politics_general/43431.html
  • There is no evidence in this source that they are liberals distinct from the mainstream in the party, including Sim Sang Jung. In addition, the source does not mention liberal or liberalism.

• https://m.khan.co.kr/politics/assembly/article/202207121553011#c2b
  • Social democracy(사회민주주의) is mentioned in that source, but it is not about factions. Rather, the source writes the remarks of a person in the party who said that the mainstream in the party is moving away from social democracy.

• https://www.ohmynews.com/NWS_Web/Series/series_premium_pg.aspx?CNTN_CD=A0002868114 and https://www.mediatoday.co.kr/news/articleView.html?idxno=200546
  • Socialism they say does not necessarily mean a far left line like Jean-Luc Mélenchon. They are absolutely moderate social democrats.

I object to the addition of the "Factions". Mureungdowon (talk) 05:34, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

I think Sim Sang Jung and Lee Jung-mi are both liberals. The 참여계 is rather not liberal in the context of American politics on feminist issues. In addition, many some LGBTs in South Korea like the U.S. Democratic Party but dislike DPK and support the Justice Party as an alternative can be seen on social media, including Twitter. The Justice Party is one of the few political parties in South Korea that supports cultural liberalism. Since South Korean society is still feudal, liberalism should be regarded as a leftist ideology. Mureungdowon (talk) 05:46, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

I admit that the source citation was somewhat lacking. I will write only the accurate part of the source in a small meeting format.

(Add) In fact, the contradiction of the above statement is so inconsistent with how the "social democratic moderate" parties in developed countries write "centre left to left wing". The party is also referred to as Liberalism. Lazt9312 (talk) 14:48, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

Free Democratic Party (Germany) has an RFC

Free Democratic Party (Germany) has an RFC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Aaron Liu (talk) 01:43, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

March 2023

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