User talk:Kudpung/Archive Dec 2020

Your comment at WT:NPPR

Hi! I hope you are well. I come here because the discussion there has become about everything.

You wrote NPR has a reward system but nobody is keeping an eye on the reviewers' performance and handing out the medals when they become due. Where is that? I could at least look up editors who have been overlooked for appreciation and hand out barnstars/medals; that's one thing I could surely do. (I have other ideas that I can't do like systematically reviewing active reviewers and providing advice and feedback (without making it look like a warning), which would require a respected NPPR, preferably one who is also an admin. I know we still have Rosguill but I think they're already doing all they can without breaking). And of course, we would not be in this situation if we had supported better @Onel5969 and John B123:. As much as we like to invoke WP:YANI, reviewers who can do high volume work with acceptable accuracy don't grow on trees.

And for [t]ake the newsletter for example. Once a regular two-monthly periodical , nobody is bothered although there are plenty of things that need to be brought to the reviewers' attention. But also, to have any impact a newsletter needs to be presented in a compelling prose and layout, I am not a mass-message sender but I gather I can request someone else to send out messages if I have a message and a list of users to send to. The list I reckon is somewhere and is only a matter of finding it. The issue for me would likely be the "compelling prose and layout" part. On that front, couldn't we create drafts as project subpages and work together at WT:NPPR to determine what to send out? Usedtobecool ☎️ 16:00, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

Hi Usedtobecool, is it a coincidence you mention WP:YANI? Or have you been following this thread at Iridescent's tp. If you haven't, please do. It's a longish read but it's all about NPP and replaceability and it will certainly answer some of your questions about the apathy at NPR as you read thought it. What you need to know to get anything going is all there at WP:NPPC, and I mean all as in absolutely everything anyone would need to know about managing and coordinating NPR. I created the page and everything else in it. I'm almost obsessive-compulsive about providing instructions and detail about how to do things. Maybe the problem is the detail itself and people can't see the wood for the trees, but it works for me in RL. You can even prepare a newsletter on that page. All you need to do is copy and paste a previous one to reuse the format, add the new content and call it 'draft' until it's ready to be sent. One of the few tools I have left is Mass Message Sender. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 16:43, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

I can give you the massmessage userright if you want it; it's just a box-tick. The only reason we restrict the ability to allocate it to admins is to prevent spammers granting the permission to each other. ‑ Iridescent 17:31, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

WP:NPPC: Of course! That makes sense. I just had never thought to check it out because "it is for COORDINATORs" I guess; I half-dreamt it a secret lounge where you and Barkeep and Rosguill hang out. El, oh El!

I have Iri's talk page watched ofc, but I have far too many pages on my watchlist and I only check out discussions when the entry hints at something interesting. And I was not around much the past week; now that I am, I surely will look.

NPP, unlike the content-building projects, is an administrative affair. So, I think a coordinator there, to be effective, needs to be an administrator. I would like to help out, and I have ideas, but the "leadership" leadership needs to belong to someone whose opinions carry weight and whose warnings, etc. wouldn't be toothless. Any non-admin who takes up that role had better be indistinguishable from an admin.

I think NPP advice is not as straightforward as it could be. Much is because too many things that reviewers need to know can't be said on-wiki or even at all, and probably just as much is because there is no community consensus on policy questions that NPPR's find asking themselves every other article. You, Kudpung, have the tenure, the experience and the knowledge, but for a learner, there is no clarity anywhere at all. If we want to get something done efficiently—and doing it efficiently is the only way we are going to catch up—we need a streamlined process with few ambiguities. Regards! Usedtobecool ☎️ 19:38, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

Usedtobecool, There's a difference between management and leadership. That's been discussed at WT:NPR. Adminship is not strictly necessary for coordination but it certainly helps. I retired from the NPP before I lost my tools, but the fact I don't have them is what makes it no sense for me to come back to NPP because for what I did there they were essential. NPP is not ambiguous but it does have a steep learning curve, that's why the caveat is that it needs a near admin knowledge of policies. But again, it's just a question of reading up on the instructions - and do take a moment to read that thread on Iri's tp. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 20:01, 6 December 2021 (UTC)