User talk:Kleinzach/Archive 28

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Archive 27 Archive 28 Archive 29


I was looking at your contributions closely and I feel that you are well-qualified for WP:RFA. Are interested in a nomination? Thanks Secret account 13:26, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for your offer. I'm flattered, but on consideration I don't think I really want to go through the process. I am an encyclopedist, not a social networker, and I've been critical of the bureaucracy on WP. I'm not the neutral, diplomatic, no-enemies type that the process is designed to promote. I also don't need admin powers to do what I want to do on WP. So I appreciate your confidence, but the answer is no. Best. --Kleinzach 01:22, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Class Assignment/Skidmore College in upstate New York

Yes. Did I do anything wrong? - pstrongw —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pstrongw (talkcontribs) 14:48, 16 December 2009 (UTC) --Pstrongw (talk) 14:50, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

You are welcome, however we've had some disruptions caused by inadequately prepared class assignments (see here) and your project has not been announced here. Perhaps you can ask your teacher to make an announcement? Which school are you from? --Kleinzach 01:00, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
I'm from Skidmore College in upstate New York, and I just notified my professor to announce our project. Thank you so much for your time.--Pstrongw (talk) 01:41, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Mazurkas (Chopin)

What move do you intend to make that this is in the way of, please? DES (talk) 23:17, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Chopin's mazurkas move to Mazurkas (Chopin). Thank you. --Kleinzach 00:22, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
Move done. DES (talk) 00:42, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
Thanks. --Kleinzach 00:53, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Your interview with the Signpost

I've just read it and was hugely impressed! It even pointed me to a certain guideline I knew nothing about: Wikipedia:WikiProject Music/MUSTARD. Can I suggest that it is linked from WP:CM, too? So much of it is actually to do with formatting written music, citing opus numbers, etc, that it is clearly of major value to that project. Thoughts? --Jubilee♫clipman 02:56, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I haven't look at it for a while. It's an attempt to put all the music guidelines together in one place. I see there is now a Category:Style guidelines of WikiProjects, which implies that other project guidelines should go on their own dedicated project pages and be categorized. --Kleinzach 03:14, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
Mustard is actually pretty good and should be better known. It does not replace any of the other guides, IMO. Rather, it supplements them. Catting style guidelines seems bizarre at first thought, but might make sense in the long run... --Jubilee♫clipman 04:21, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
Ideally these guidelines should eventually migrate into the MOS, however you need to be a bit masochistic to go through the discussions there. --Kleinzach 04:58, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
Oh, yes I forgotten about that! --Jubilee♫clipman 05:26, 21 December 2009 (UTC)


Hi. You are welcome. About the notation, a first look at the Sutherland recording, with all those ? signs, gave me the impression that is not clear the correspondance between characters and singers. Aas you know Tales is a very complex opera and someone who is not used to it, could not understand easily that the same singer plays Olympia and Antonia, for example. On the other hand as table grows bigger, it will be more and more difficult to see the original name (I see that some ideas are given in the discussion page). If you don't like the notation you are more than welcome to change it. My english is not quite good so it could be hard for me to explain and defend my ideas in the opera project context. Best regards, --Jdiazch (talk) 12:14, 22 December 2009 (UTC)


  The Working Wikipedian's Barnstar
I would like to award you this for your tireless work for WP:CM and I hope that you will carry on in the future. Pianoplonkers(talk) 17:31, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Musical Terminology

Hello, the aim with regard to the above is not to depopulate - I added several pages and am seeking more - but to use the category for articles dealing with musical terminology as such. As the note at the top said before you removed it, otherwise any musical term can be so classified. After 600+ edits the articles you replaced are currently the only reverts and the only articles now in the category that do not deal with musical terminology. Please note that your reverts have removed genuinely useful categories. Redheylin (talk) 19:29, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Answered at mine! Redheylin (talk) 23:51, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Reverting non-vandalism

First, I want to thank you for the great work. I saw this edit [1] and I ask you to consider the negative impact of such reverts on the new user. Thank you again. Sole Soul (talk) 14:51, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Merry Christmas

Hope you have a great new year too! --Jubilee♫clipman 01:01, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

WP:CTM election notice

WikiProject Contemporary music


Hi and hello! We are currently electing our first coordinator, see Election: Coordinator for 2010. If you are interested in being a candidate, or would like to ask questions of the candidates, please take a look. Nominations are open until Sunday 3 January. You can see more information about this at Wikipedia:WikiProject Contemporary music/Coordinator.

P.S. You are currently listed on the project participants list. Are you still active on the project? If so, please reconfirm your name on the Members list. Thanks and good editing!
I see you sent this to yourself! Only fair I suppose... BTW, is that it? 3rd has come and gone and no more noms. It would not be right for me to close the election! --Jubilee♫clipman 01:18, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
I'll close it - then you can take it away! BTW the above was testing. --Kleinzach 01:20, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Przemysław Lechowski

An article Przemysław Lechowski is a faithful translation of the article from polish Wikipedia, which exists for one year. It is mainly based on biography placed at the official web page of the artist and there is artists’s permission at the polish Wikipedia given for using this text in polish, english and french. The other sources are two Who Is Who lexicons containing giographies of the artist. The author of that article in polish Wikipedia is Eukaliptus (an author of the articles about musicians - info at polish Wikipedia). I don’t see english translation of already existing article as uncorrection. However, english isn’t my native tongue – so if you have reservation regarding grammar or style, please make a correction of errors. According to your suggestions I have added references and sources, hope now there won’t be any reservations.

Franciszkalotta 12:56, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Replied on article talk page. --Kleinzach 14:21, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Leo, the Royal Cadet

Hi, I appreciate your edits. I don't know anything about opera but I am an alumni of the Royal Military College of Canada and write for the alumni journal. I have access to the original Leo, the Royal Cadet operetta c. 1800s with 3 Acts for 16 soloists, chorus and orchestra and to a scaled down modern adaptation by the Toronto Operatta Theatre in 2 Acts. I have access to music in which Leo is a Baritone and Nellie a soprano, but I have no idea as to other voices. I found the original dramatis personae. Victoriaedwards (talk) 04:58, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Hi again, I can fix the capitalization but I don't know how to write in italics on a table. Victoriaedwards (talk) 05:39, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

My contact at the Toronto Operetta Theatre, director Guillermo Silva-Marin could supply the voices. What should I ask him? If there are follow up questions, you might want to email him.

Toronto Operetta Theatre revives its popular production of Canada’s own operetta, Leo, the Royal Cadet (1889) by Oscar Telgmann with 4 performances February 17 to 21. Leo, The Royal Cadet is starring Kristen Galer, Gabrielle Prata, Cory O'Brien and Robert Longo, with conductor John Greer. The tuneful tale follows the lives of cadets at the Royal Military College in Kingston, their departure for the Zulu Wars in South Africa and their return home. The productions are staged by renowned director Guillermo Silva-Marin, with TOT vocal ensemble and orchestra at the Jane Mallett Theatre 27 Front Street East, Toronto. Victoriaedwards (talk) 06:11, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

OK. I think the voice types are the main thing. --Kleinzach 06:12, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Your edit to WP:MUSIC

I have reverted your edit to the redirect WP:MUSIC as well over 30,000 pages link to it (I qit counting after getting that high) as references to Wikipedia:Notability (music), so changing the redirect now would be extremely disruptive. If you want to change the redirect to point at WikiProject Music, I suggest opening a discussion at the Village pump on either the proposals or miscellaneous page. Thanks. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 05:01, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

OK. Fair enough. It's counter intuitive but I won't question your stats. Thanks. --Kleinzach 05:05, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
I've referred this to Village pump miscellaneous, see here. --Kleinzach 05:23, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
Actually, I have wondered about that usage of the shortcut myself. Even if it went to MOS:MUSIC instead that would make far more sense... Anyway I'll check out the VPM prop. Whatever else is true, the shorcuts for the Music project are horrible! --Jubilee♫clipman 10:25, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Re: Cfd: Category:Essays by Richard Wagner

Hi Kleinzach. No, I wasn't contacted by any of the people who expressed opinion in that discussion – not regarding to the discussion nor otherwise. I found the discussion when I was going through the Categories for discussion backlog. Why do you ask? I'd be happy to expand on my reasoning for the close if that's what you'd like. Regards, Jafeluv (talk) 12:27, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Thank you. I'm happy to WP:AGF. One less problem to deal with. The other ones nevertheless remain. --Kleinzach 05:38, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Unreferenced BLPs

  Hello Kleinzach! Thank you for your contributions. I am a bot alerting you that 2 of the articles that you created are tagged as Unreferenced Biographies of Living Persons. The biographies of living persons policy requires that all personal or potentially controversial information be sourced. In addition, to ensure verifiability, all biographies should be based on reliable sources. if you were to bring these articles up to standards, it would greatly help us with the current 1,900 article backlog. Once the articles are adequately referenced, please remove the {{unreferencedBLP}} tag. Here is the list:

  1. Cornel Trăilescu - Find sources: Google (books · news · newspapers · scholar · free images · WP refs· FENS · JSTOR · NYT · TWL
  2. Kazuko Hara - Find sources: Google (books · news · newspapers · scholar · free images · WP refs· FENS · JSTOR · NYT · TWL

Thanks!--DASHBot (talk) 00:13, 9 January 2010 (UTC)


Thank you for patrolling this user's edits. StevenBlack (talk) 02:20, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm not patrolling her edits. I am interested in only one article: Leo, the Royal Cadet. --Kleinzach 02:22, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
Sorry. Let me translate for you. Thank you for being vigilant. StevenBlack (talk) 02:41, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE (though I'm not begging)

Well Hello there, I am a proud teen-aged Beethoven lover, am currently enrolled in a Music History and Appreciation class, and have a question for you. I have to write a 2-5 page essay/speech from either Beethoven or Mozart's point of view while compairing and contrasting the others music and over all person with my own. Of course I chose Beethoven as my alter ego, but I have no "juicy" background on Mozart that would detail Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart as a person. With my knowledge of Beethoven's personality, I would love my essay to be some what of a mud slinging speech but I am at a loss for information. If at all possible, could you send me some of said information? It would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, K.M.B —Preceding unsigned comment added by MissBuhrmann (talkcontribs) 21:03, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

IMO it would be possible for Beethoven to assess the importance of Mozart, but not the other way round as that would be counter-chronological. There is a lot of information on Wikipedia and you can download it in the form of a 'book' if you want. My (simplistic) view is that Beethoven was able to follow Mozart in developing the piano sonata, piano concerto and above all the symphony, but for some reason stumbled when it came to opera, where his achievement is much more limited than Mozart's. Regards. --Kleinzach 09:32, 16 January 2010 (UTC)


Hi. Thanks for notice, but italian page it:Direttore d'orchestra has interwikis not to maestro but to Conducting. Hugo.arg (talk) 12:23, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

I don't think I understand. The Italian lead says "Il direttore d'orchestra, spesso chiamato anche maestro, è la figura che guida un'orchestra o in generale un gruppo di musicisti." (my emphasis). It's also in the right language. Please tell me if I'm missing something. --Kleinzach 12:39, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Well, when I fixing interwikis with my bot I usually follow existing interwiki links supposing that editors of that wikipedia have chosen the most corect interwiki links for that page. So, if you'll look to the it:Direttore d'orchestra you could see that interwiki links from that page links not to en:maestro but to articles about Conducting. And that isn't pretty good when you go from one page to another page but there is no back-link. In the correct case there should be interwiki links only between same pages not involving other pages. So, page A in lang:x should link to page A in lang:y and vice versa but not page A in lang:x to page A in lang:y and that link to page:B in lang:x. Hugo.arg (talk) 13:58, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

I don't feel strongly about this so you can remove the Maestro link to it:Direttore d'orchestra if you like. The main problem was that your bot was apparently mistaking LT for IT. --Kleinzach 22:53, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

No, bot isn't mistaking anything. It just added a link to a new article about maestro in Lithuanian wiki and removed Italian as not exactly correct. I supervise the work of my bot and it never does mistakes only I do :) Hugo.arg (talk) 08:24, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Classical music style guidelines

Hi, Kleinzach. I've done some work on this - see User:JackofOz/Music style issues. As you can see, it's currently a mixture of statements and questions, reflecting the chaotic/fragmented state of my mind and life at the moment. It's a start, and I'm sure it has some good things, but it needs more work before it can go anywhere. Appreciate your feedback as to whether I'm remotely in the ballpark on this. Cheers. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 10:17, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, Kleinzach. I am definitely interested in participating. Maybe not as the lead writer, though. Lately I find myself fragmented in various ways, and it's unwise to rely on me for much. Too many things I'm involved in, far too little time. Probably would have been better to gracefully decline your proposal at the outset, rather than let my ego take the running. Best. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 09:17, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

{{WPBiography}} for musical works?

Found and fixed. As it's written in Yobot's page, mistakes can be done due to wrong categorisation. -- Magioladitis (talk) 13:52, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

At most 111 articles were affected from that. Do you want me to go and revert? -- Magioladitis (talk) 13:53, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Ah, yes please. --Kleinzach 14:04, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
I am waiting for Yobot to stop tagging to use AWB to revert the affected pages. It won't take a long. Thanks, Magioladitis (talk) 14:14, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
Can you please stop working on other composers as I am sure there are many others that are similar to Johann Strauss II in the way they are categorized. --Kleinzach 14:17, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
I am working in subcats of 1810s births, 1820s births and 1830s births. I stopped Yobot and I am checking. -- Magioladitis (talk) 14:22, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
Removed cats from Listz too. We were lucky and Yobot didn't run though there yet. Removed the articles in question. -- Magioladitis (talk) 14:23, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
Done. These were all. That was close. :) -- Magioladitis (talk) 14:24, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
Liszt? As I expected . . .--Kleinzach 14:27, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
There will be many composers in those years. Please don't include them. --Kleinzach 14:26, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
Composers yes but the problem was categories named after them that had births/deaths cats inside. -- Magioladitis (talk) 14:29, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
Suggest checking Richard Wagner and Giuseppe Verdi. --Kleinzach 14:30, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
Check the subcategories in Category:1830s births for example. "P" means pages, "C" categories. 1810-1819 births dont' contain any subcats. So we are ok. -- Magioladitis (talk) 14:31, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
(My method is faster) -- Magioladitis (talk) 14:32, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
Last two days categories (1840s, 1850s, 1860s, 1870s) were also clean. 1800s is clean as well. You can help by checking in other centuries. -- Magioladitis (talk) 14:35, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
No, thank you. I have no wish to help clutter up talk pages with useless, impractical banners. --Kleinzach 14:39, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
I meant you can help looking for other categories improperly subcategorised so we prevent same mistakes in the future. But I think I'll do it later today. Thank again for reporting and for helping locating the problem. -- Magioladitis (talk) 14:47, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
  1. 15:33, 20 January 2010 (hist | diff) m Category:Pierre-Domonique Bazaine ‎ (removed birth/death categories. article needs these catefgories but the category is not a subcat of births nor deaths)
  2. 15:32, 20 January 2010 (hist | diff) m Category:Heinrich Heine ‎ (removed birth/death categories. article needs these catefgories but the category is not a subcat of births nor deaths)
  3. 15:32, 20 January 2010 (hist | diff) m Category:Franz Schubert ‎ (removed birth/death categories. article needs these categories but the category is not a subcat of births nor deaths)

-- Magioladitis (talk) 15:35, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Wrong tags removed. -- Magioladitis (talk) 21:36, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Opera house repertory lists

Hi. Belated thanks for the virtual Christmas card. Lots of snow here, unusually, over the last month.

I've hatched a plan to put up complete lists of operas performed at relatively recently-created opera companies that I am familiar with. I've made use of Michael B's sortable list format and, using a couple of sources, have produced the beginning of a "List of operas performed at the Wexford Festival" - it's currently at User:GuillaumeTell/Gravelbox. There will be an intro and suitable footnotes and I'll either create some extra articles or delink the red links.

It's clearly not feasible to include roles or singers, and I'm wondering whether designers really need to be there. Also, I thought that it would be good to characterise operas by the language used by their librettists (I'm pretty certain that Martha won't have been performed in German nor La figlia del reggimento in French!) to see what the overall breakdown of nationalities of operas might be - same for premiere dates. Anyway, any thoughts on the format and anything else? I'll be asking opera project members what they think when I've done a few more entries in a day or two but thought I'd run this past you beforehand. The sorting seems to work OK. After Wexford, I plan to go on to lists for Glyndebourne and Opera North - I have source material for both. Best. --GuillaumeTell 02:13, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

This looks interesting. Reminds me of Peter Cohen's current effort Bayreuth canon. Have you seen that?
I don't see any problem including designers and conductors. Eight columns is usually fine, especially if they are quite narrow, as in this case. I think 'Year' and 'Date' need clarification — maybe that's in hand? Perhaps language should come immediately after title? Giving the language is useful. I would guess that you have room to include singers in some kind of limited way if you want to, though maybe it's not worth attempting? Piping the names of composers to show surname only would save space. --Kleinzach 03:16, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
Yes, I've seen the Bayreuth canon (only 6 columns) but was using one of your lists of composers as a model. I agree about Language, and I was thinking of putting in an explanatory footnote. Year and Date - they should be Year performed and Date premiered (or just Premièred), but those would produce a lot of blank space and I was intending to footnote those, too. I'll see what a Singers column might look like (maybe a maximum of two names?) - there are some famous names here and there - but I don't want it to get too elaborate. Thanks for the comments. --GuillaumeTell 10:51, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
Just had another look. Michael B can move the language column if that's a problem — he's always been kind enough to move my columns. Re year/date maybe just 'Production' and 'Premiered' to avoid footnotes — my reasoning is that it is obvious that a date/year has been given. --Kleinzach 23:44, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
I'm dubious about moving the language column - it seems to me that the opera title and composer name ought to be next to each other. I did move the conductor column so that it precedes the director and designer(s), and that wasn't too difficult. Peter Cohen suggests (at amalgamation of directors and designers (to save space), but I don't think that the designers will then be sortable. --GuillaumeTell 00:10, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
I don't think it's a good idea to amalgamate directors and designers, once you start doing this kind of thing there's no point in having sortable columns at all. Re language col. placement this is not a major issue, the only other table I can remember having one is the List of opera genres which is obviously different. --Kleinzach 00:23, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Eicca Toppinen

Hi Klein, I note that you removed Eicca Toppinen because he is not technically a composer, but rather a songwriter. The distinction (as we both well know) is a fine one but the words "[i]n 2007, Toppinen composed the soundtrack for the Finnish movie "Musta Jää" (Black Ice)" seem to suggest that he is a composer. Is he perhaps non-classical (as songwriter and the cited genres in his biobox tend to suggest)? --Jubilee♫clipman 20:59, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Ah, you mean I took him out of the List of 21st-century classical composers? (I can't find any edit I did to the article.) This kind of page poses two questions. (1). Is this person notable as a composer as well as a songwriter, i.e. if the other stuff didn't apply would he still have an article on Wikipedia as a notable composer. (Imagine (Scottish example) Alex Salmond is a good cook, should he be placed in the List of 21st-century Scottish cooks, or should we consider him to be primarily a politician and leave hime out?) (2) Is it appropriate for us to include the article in composer categories and edit the article in the usual composer style? In this case it would mean removing the infobox etc. which might not be popular with the usual editors/readers of the article, and giving emphasis to the supposedly 'serious' side of his work.
I suppose we could include Toppinen in the list, but not within the scope of the project, but that seems illogical IMO. Anyway, what do you we should do in this case? --Kleinzach 09:38, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Inva Mula edit

Regarding you edit here Inva Mula, tell me should i place all articles like that, or not? I didn't see that this version without separation on notes, and references are common. But if it is, i will follow it. Thanks in advance! :) --Tadija (talk) 11:27, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Hi. There is some variation but most articles use the simple style. 'Notes' are normally called 'References'. 'References' can also include general sources as well as inline citation references. Does this help? I can provide examples if you like. --Kleinzach 12:29, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
Please! I am writing a lot of articles where i have one important note, and of course rest of references and sources bellow. So it will mean a lot to see! :) Thank you! --Tadija (talk) 12:34, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
Do you mean one important source? --Kleinzach 13:08, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
No, maybe just an example? To see what format should i copy? :) --Tadija (talk) 13:12, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
Here are some simple ones: Meta Seinemeyer, Olive Fremstad. --Kleinzach 13:47, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
Ok, thanks! :) :) :) --Tadija (talk) 13:51, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
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