Justexamples

Welcome

Hi, Justexamples, and Welcome to Wikipedia! Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking or or by typing four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your username and the date. Also, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field. Below are some useful links to facilitate your involvement on Wikipedia. Thank You. Happy editing! Lemongirl942 (talk) 03:23, 20 August 2016 (UTC) Getting started Introduction The Wikipedia Adventure - Play this game to get an overall idea of Wikipedia and earn yourself 12 badges! The five pillars of Wikipedia Editing a page The Intuitive guide to Wikipedia Finding your way around Table of contents Department directory Editing articles (your way) Developing an article Simplified Manual of Style Getting help Frequently asked questions Wikipedia's Cheatsheet Where to ask a question Help pages New contributors' help page Article Wizard – a Wizard to help you create articles How you can help Wikipedia Contribute to Wikipedia Be active at the Community Portal Follow the Wikipedia etiquette Practice civility

August 2016

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. This is a message letting you know that one or more of your recent edits to Elaine Ng has been undone by an automated computer program called ClueBot NG.

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Speedy deletion nomination of Elaine Ng (consultant)

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A tag has been placed on Elaine Ng (consultant), requesting that it be deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under two or more of the criteria for speedy deletion, by which pages can be deleted at any time, without discussion. If the page meets any of these strictly-defined criteria, then it may be soon be deleted by an administrator. The reasons it has been tagged are:

• It seems to be unambiguous advertising which only promotes a company, product, group, service or person and would need to be fundamentally rewritten in order to become encyclopedic. (See section G11 of the criteria for speedy deletion.) Please read the guidelines on spam and Wikipedia:FAQ/Business for more information.
• It appears to be about a person, organization (band, club, company, etc.), individual animal, or web content, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. (See section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion.) Such articles may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. Lemongirl942 (talk) 02:28, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

About speedy deletion

Hi Justexamples! Thank you for contributing to Wikipedia. I tagged that article for speedy deletion. Let me explain a bit about how we decide to create article. For us to have an article first we need to show that the article subject is notable (See WP:N). For this we need significant coverage in multiple reliable secondary sources which are independent of the subject. For example, a Straits Times or WSJ article would work but a link to a profile page on the company website wouldn't as it is not independent. The coverage has to be about the subject - it needs to address it directly and in detail. And we need multiple such sources to show notability. Here are some examples:

1. [1],[2],[3],[4] This is trivial coverage and they are essentially just quotes by the subject. We need significant coverage about the person.
2. [5] This is significant coverage but by the subject's company - not independent of the subject.

What we require is significant coverage in "multiple reliable secondary sources independent of the subject". The article subject doesn't seem notable for a Wikipedia article at this time. --Lemongirl942 (talk) 03:37, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

Hi Lemongirl, thank you for pointing out that quotes are not considered significant coverage about a person. However, there are other sources such as the University of Cambridge and that talked about Elaine. There are many direct reliable secondary source, among the many indirect ones, mostly depicting the acquiring of her company, HRBS with her mentioned as the owner of HRBS. These are two examples of the many sources you may find online. In fact, Marsh & McLennan has recognised that the purchase of HRBS "14-year old company will spread Mercer's compensation and benefits expertise in the Asian market. Could you please reconsider your assessment? justexamples 04:43, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

References

Hi. Thank you for your reply. The Cambridge Asia source is from "The Cambridge Asia Business Association (CABA)" which I won't exactly call a reliable source. Reliable source refers to sources which have a reputation for editorial insight like newspaper and journals. In addition, the fact that the society called her for a presentation and is writing about it, makes it a non-independent source. This businesswire is a reprinted press release: we don't consider these as independent sources. This Nasdaq doesn't mention her at all.

Notability for a person will have to be demonstrated independently of the company. That is the sources about the subject, have to be about the subject themselves. --Lemongirl942 (talk) 05:21, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

OK I get it. Thanks. For now, on another note, would you think an article about HRBS with Elaine mentioned as the founder is notable then? justexamples 05:28, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

Hi, for companies the notability guidelines are stricter. See WP:NCORP. This requires multiple sources each with significant coverage which explain the company in detail. Also, we generally do not have multiple article about subsidiaries - usually the parent company gets an article with a small mention of the subsidiary. As for mentioning the subject in the company's article - we usually mention a bit about the founder or CEOs. For other employees, it really depends. The employee would need to play a significant role like founding/CEO/owner etc. Note that we cannot put WP:UNDUE weight on one particular employee. --Lemongirl942 (talk) 05:55, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

Since you are new here, my personal recommendation would be to edit around a bit first. Maybe become involved in some discussions. That helps you to become a bit more familiar with the policies and guidelines. --Lemongirl942 (talk) 05:57, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

Thanks a lot. I guess I'll do that.

justexamples 06:10, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

Signing posts

Oh btw when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion (but never when editing articles), please be sure to sign your posts. There are two ways to do this. Either:

1. Add four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment; or
2. With the cursor positioned at the end of your comment, click on the signature button ( or ) located above the edit window.

This will automatically insert a signature with your username or IP address and the time you posted the comment. This information is necessary to allow other editors to easily see who wrote what and when. --Lemongirl942 (talk) 07:10, 20 August 2016 (UTC)thanks lemongirl. noted and will include tilde justexamples 07:57, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

Leonard Tan (entrepreneur)

I just saw your PROD at Leonard Tan (entrepreneur). Usually when we delete pages, we take into account the sources available and not the state of the article. So for example, if there are dead links in an article - that is not a valid reason for deletion. PROD is usually used in cases where the person is not notable, so your reason has to be something like "Fails WP:GNG. Very less coverage in reliable source". I personally think the individual is not notable (this for example is an alumni blog and is not considered a reliable source). If you feel, you can always revert your own edit. --Lemongirl942 (talk) 04:02, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

Lemongirl942 hi Lemongirl, just a personal ranting here. I have tried looking across profiles in wikipedia, and gosh, there are so many that will violate the notability standards you described to me(and I read about those in detail online). I would have recommended deletion to them all. It just gets demoralising and I only felt that you were too strict with my article after looking around (haha). Looks like wikipedia standards can be arbitrary. I can give you many examples that survived for almost a decade and I believe you know too. I genuinely find that Elaine is much more notable than many of them, having been interviewed every year by major HK and Singapore newspapers on compensation related topics (I am not related to her, but somewhat benefited from her in the past and wanted to do some justice here). When can I re-create her article trying my best to satisfy your criteria? I understand that I might have written it like a resume in my first draft. By the way, how to I talk know if you see something i replied on my talk page "::lemongirl942" does this work??justexamples 04:14, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

Hey, I understand why it feels demoralising. The thing is, prior to 2012, the notability criteria of Wikipedia was quite lax. So a lot of article ended up being created. Now (post 2012-13) the criteria has become stricter. Which is why we see all those article which are seriously not notable. (There is a humourous article about this WP:SEWAGE). (And we keep on deleting these article one by one). In that sense, your PROD was correct. As for your article, notability is not based on the article content. It is based on whether sources exists out there. Interviews are considered by many as primary sources btw, so you need to find good secondary sources. I searched quite a bit actually before nominating it for deletion and I did not find enough. (It is not possible to know if I have seen your posts. I usually tend to reply immediately when I read though). --Lemongirl942 (talk) 05:08, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

Oh. lol. ok. ever so convincing with your quick and well sourced responses (morale revived). hats off for volunteers like you who take time to do justice out there. as for Elaine's case, agree for now, and i believe she will soon get enough secondary coverage.. p.s. what i meant with the :::lemongirl942 is not referring to a "read receipt" per se, but with regards to whether there is a proper way to get you notified (if you selected that option in your preference of course). I may want to consult you some times when editing articles out there. u seem to be really seasoned.justexamples 05:43, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

Ah I see what you mean. You mean how to notify/contact me right? A good way is on my talk page. If you are on a different page or on your own talk page (as in this page), you can "ping me" by typing {{u|Lemongirl942}} and then sign your post using 4 tildes. --Lemongirl942 (talk) 08:13, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

thanks got it! justexamples 17:16, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

How do I ask for third party opinion when the page is obviously not attracting enough attention? eg. the current topic under Profit (accounting) justexamples 16:04, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

File an RFC. ThePlatypusofDoom (talk) 16:19, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

Thank you! justexamples 16:58, 27 August 2016 (UTC)