Ichigoichigo

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Your submission at Articles for creation: Nick Shoulders (April 7)

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ZUTOMAYO

Can you rephrase your edit summary here? I don't understand. The conjunction here is で, no? When combined with the context of the rest of the sentence, how is it a confused translation? Lunar-akaunto／talk 15:22, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

Certainly. In this case, as in the stock phrase "でいい", the で isn't really doing much lexically - it's just a connecting form, essentially the て-form of the noun, right? Equivalent to how you might say "来ていい" with a verb.

In this case, rather than connecting "ずっと真夜中" just to "いい", which would just be interpreted as "fine" or "okay" in that context, it's connecting "ずっと真夜中" to "いいのに" which is a stock construction of its own indicating "I wish..." or "It would be nice if..."

I describe it as confused (I apologise if that wasn't the best way of putting it) because "It's okay if I wish it was midnight all the time" interprets "いい" in two different ways at once, since "It's okay" would use the "いい" on its own, whereas "I wish" uses it in the construction "いいのに" Ichigoichigo (talk) 17:55, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

But でいい is a compound word here, no? Might be a little too far-stretched, but のに would simply be constructed as "i wish" even without で。 And that's what a literal translation is, right? Minimal emphasis on context? Lunar-akaunto／talk 03:08, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

でいい isn't a compound word, no. It's just the particle で, attached to 真夜中, followed by the word いい, which can mean "okay" or "enough" or "unneeded" or, most straightforwardly, just "good". In a context where it would mean "It's okay if/that...", that meaning would all be communicated by the word "いい", being used to mean "okay" - the で only serves to connect a noun or な-adjective to that, in exactly the same way you could use the て-form of a verb. In fact it's perfectly reasonable to describe it as the て-form of だ. のに on its own couldn't communicate "I wish", because the construction specifically works by indicating "It would be good if..." (maybe "if only" is a good way of putting it) with "いい" meaning "good".

As for the idea of a literal translation, I think "I wish it was midnight all the time" is close to being as literal as is practical to actually render the content of the sentence. "I wish" = いいのに "it was" = で "midnight" = 真夜中 "all the time" = ずっと. Maybe there's a case to be made that "if only" is more literal than "I wish" (I would argue either is perfectly fine) but either translation accounts for every part of the Japanese sentence and does just enough in English to produce a meaningful sentence that communicates the original meaning. I would say "I wish it was midnight all the time" and "If only it was midnight all the time" are both good translations - I only really defer to the former because in the absence of a really solid source for an official translation I'm happier favouring the more widespread rendering rather than pushing my own interpretation. That said, I also don't think it's really necessary for the article opening to specify a literal translation in the first place - that distinction only really seems worth making when a functional English translation deviates significantly from the original Japanese lexically, as one might have to do with a joke or song lyric. In this case, an elegant English translation doesn't need to skip over or alter any of the Japanese significantly anyway. Ichigoichigo (talk) 07:12, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

But it is here, though. If you don't mind, what source are you using to cross-check or decipher the translation? The literal translation doesn't necessarily require a source or being official. Yes, the argument that the literal translation shouldn't even be here is perfectly valid, and from what i know, they are not used for proper names, but since it's a sentence, it should be here (in my opinion, at least). Lunar-akaunto／talk 05:02, 28 June 2024 (UTC)