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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


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Welcome to Wikipedia, Finnusertop! I have been editing Wikipedia for quite some time. Thank you for your contributions. I just wanted to say hi and welcome you to Wikipedia! If you have any questions check out Wikipedia:Questions, or feel free to leave me a message on my talk page or type {{helpme}} at the bottom of this page. I love to help new users, so don't be afraid to leave a message! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Also, when you post on talk pages you should sign your name using four tildes (~~~~); that should automatically produce your username and the date after your post. Again, welcome! I dream of horses If you reply here, please leave me a {{Talkback}} message on my talk page. @ 04:56, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

Hey Finn

Hey Finn, fisrt of all, thanks for the tips. Now my page on Cry of Fear looks more professional. Which brings me to my second thing to say. How do you make the part where for game articles it shows the ESRB Rating, developer(s), release date, genre, and all that other stuff. I know that I probably sound like a moron right now, but that's because I don't know much about wikipedia articles. I also want to add pictures to the article and try to make it look better. I see my Cry of Fear article as incomplete without those things. And I must learn how to do it.

Nbomber97 (talk) 01:28, 23 August 2013 (UTC)Nbomber97

I'm glad to help you. Looks like you already found the template for videogame infoboxes. As for pictures, Wikimedia already has two about Cry of Fear. Check them out at the end of this message. How did I find them? I searched for "Cry of Fear" on Wikimedia Commons. Turns out these images are used on the Vietnamese languge Wikipedia for their article on Cry of Fear. You can use these images on your article. To learn how, read about it here: Images, Picture tutorial. Your article is coming along nicely! Follow instructions from fellow WIkipedians and keep up the good work!

Finnusertop (talk) 15:48, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

Young cats.jpg

Hey, welcome to Wikipedia! I hope you like your kitten!

R.E.D (talk) 19:11, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

Aww, thank you so much! I'm happy to see that you got adopted. If your mentor isn't online whenever you want to ask something, feel free to ask me! I love to find out and teach about Wikipedia policies and guidelines. Finnusertop (talk) 18:19, 8 January 2014 (UTC)


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Hello, Finnusertop. You have new messages at I dream of horses's talk page.
Message added 04:06, 25 February 2014 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Read. Finnusertop (talk) 14:36, 25 February 2014 (UTC)


Hey, thanks for the message :) I've adopted you! Let's get down to business :)

Would you rather:

a. Go through a formal question-and-answer layout guide where you do different activities and I validate that you did them correctly


b. Just ask me questions whenever you have them?

Also, I'm very active on different IRC channels including #wikipedia-en-help connect, where you can ask experienced Wikipedia users for help :) Even if I'm not online, you can ask someone else :D

See ya!

-Newyorkadam (talk) 23:43, 20 February 2014 (UTC)Newyorkadam

I'd like to do a. I know my way around WP, policies and editing but it would be great to be reassured about this. Maybe it would help me being bolder.
Thanks for the IRC tip. I actually went there last night because I was unsure of which policy templates should I present to newcomers so as to not bite them. Maybe the lesson I learnt was that I need to get a welcoming experience in mentoring so that I know how a newcomer should feel. Finnusertop (talk) 16:50, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
Alright! Let's get started then :) Head over to User:Newyorkadam/Adoption school and you'll see what to do. -Newyorkadam (talk) 04:31, 23 February 2014 (UTC)Newyorkadam
I have created my Adoption school page, read the Five pillars and submitted answers for the cleanup tasks for review. Finnusertop (talk) 14:46, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
Completed Markup tasks. Finnusertop (talk) 23:10, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
Completed Reliable sources tasks. I'm skipping the References task for a while. Finnusertop (talk) 01:00, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

─────────────────────────Oops, didn't see this :-) I'll grade 'em soon, nice work! -Newyorkadam (talk) 01:10, 27 February 2014 (UTC)Newyorkadam

Newbie question: I've been doing some editing in Wikipedia: namespace, namely here. Since this page is mostly edited by inexperienced users, bad formatting and copyedit issues are rampant. Is fixing this generally worth it? Finnusertop (talk) 22:00, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
Sadly, Requested Articles is (in my opinion) very under appreciated and people rarely look at them other than to post new Requested Articles. If you'd like to you can fix the errors, but there isn't a pressing need. -Newyorkadam (talk) 03:16, 1 March 2014 (UTC)Newyorkadam
As a member of Typo team, which is also in charge of redirects for misspelled article names, can you answer a question? Although there are many redirects from misspellings, people still make many unseccesful page requests because of tyops. Why aren't there redirects for the (typo) ones in the latter list? If the stats are correct, making a redirect for "Vikings (TV series)m" would help tens of thousands of people per week. Finnusertop (talk) 21:12, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
EDIT: Well, looks like I didn't do my research. The issue has been discussed and there are compelling reasons for not creating mass redirects for those. This list portrays warnings about it. The trailing m/n for instance is probably due to bot requests, not human views, and there's no reason to help "tens of thousands of bots per week" ;)Finnusertop (talk) 21:29, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Reference Errors on 28 February

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Fixed by someone else. Finnusertop (talk) 23:04, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

July 2014

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Fixed by me.

San Wilfrido

I've reworked the SS San Wilfrido shipindex page, retargeted San Wilfrido and removed the hatnote from the SS Empire Cobbett page. If you find similar situations, you can simply retarget the redirect, and use the {{otherships}} as a hatnote on the articles. Mjroots (talk) 06:30, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Thank you! Finnusertop (talk | guestbook | contribs) 11:55, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

718star Amanda's Guestbook Barnstar
This user has signed my guestbook! Be sure that you're next to sign! Amanda Smalls
Thank you! 718smiley.svg Finnusertop (talk | guestbook | contribs) 14:28, 25 August 2014 (UTC)


Cornflower blue Yogo sapphire.jpg

work in progress
Thank you, Finnish user interested in history, starting with an infobox and looking for collaboration, for your activity in TAFI, for SS San Wilfrido (1914), for improving articles and adding, for pointing at "creator has created the page in good faith" and "I love to find out and teach about Wikipedia policies and guidelines", for fixing inventively, - you are an awesome Wikipedian!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:25, 31 August 2014 (UTC)


If you remove the link from BWV, as you did in BWV 22, how will you explain the abbreviation to the uninitiated? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:24, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

Hi there! If it needs to be explained, there are two ways that won't conflict MOS:BOLDTITLE: first, you can put the explanation in a footnote. Second - and I think this is something worth considering if explaining BWV is necessary for every Bach piece article - you could modify the infobox Bach composition template to include a link to BWV. Finnusertop (talk | guestbook | contribs) 08:32, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
The second option is already taken, but we have editors who would not accept an infobox in "their" articles. Look at BWV 120a, for an example, and perhaps talk to the editor about what to do, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:43, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
Recognizing that no one owns articles on WP, I think that an infobox or some other centralized template is the only way to make sure that most articles have that explanation/link. I don't see a point why any Bach piece article would not have an infobox. I feel obliged to remove links from the boldface reiteration because those are against the guidelines, and as compensation I might add an infobox that contains the link. That certainly isn't against the guidelines, no matter what the "owner" claims. I was bold and made the changes in BWV 120a. Finnusertop (talk | guestbook | contribs) 09:10, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
Thank you ;) - other numbers are 5 6 8 15 19 27 28 30 30a 34 34a 35 36a 36b 36c 38 ... - As for 105, look --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:27, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
Bottom line: wikilinks in boldface reiterations are prohibited, ugly infoboxes are allowed but not compulsory. It's up to the editors if they choose to use them; editors' compliance with MOS guidelines should be expected in any case. I probably won't edit many Bach articles in the future but I'm reassured that someone involved with them knows the "right" way. Finnusertop (talk | guestbook | contribs) 09:35, 30 August 2014 (UTC) PS. This is particularly true in the context of a Wikiproject that tries to get articles to GA status and to "compl[y] with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections" (WP:GACR). Finnusertop (talk | guestbook | contribs) 09:43, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
My approach had been not to bold the BWV number, as kind of disambiguation, but it had been reverted as being a redirect. I will unlink BWV where I see it, - typically I go over the cantatas for the following Sunday once a week. I can not add infoboxes, - arbcom restriction ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:53, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
I fixed FA and GA, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:42, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
Now I got the regular ones from 1st Sunday after Trinity (when Bach started his job in Leipzig) to now, including St John and Visitation, will do Ratswechsel also. BWV 119 was premiered on 30 August, - perhaps you could help that one to a minimum infobox? I am not restricted from adding. The numbers above - except 6 - were all started long ago and expanded by me, - so if you could eventually do the same for them, we would help our readers without conflict. 105: the main editor is banned, we know his preference, I think it would not be polite to force something now that he finds ugly, even if nobody owns articles, - a good theory ;) - Interesting, btw, that none of the different GA and FA reviewers noticed what you saw. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:13, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
Recognizing that MOS allows flexibility and editorial choice in presentation, perhaps you might consider that, while you don't see any point for such articles not to have an infobox, others do? If you feel strongly that BWV should be unlinked in the title, do so; it's not necessary to overcompensate for that change. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:58, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
Having an infobox, or not, is a matter of editorial consensus. Having one is not a policy must, not a MOS rule (which reflect prior consensuses); there are points to be made for and against infoboxes. There has been plenty of discussion to establish consensus. It would help parties who have not taken part in those discussions (eg. people like me) if the results were incorporated into some guideline. Sadly, Wikiproject Classical music guidelines don't say anything about composition infoboxes. Has there ever been a consensus on composition infoboxes? There's nowhere I can go and check. Having this discussion over and over again is not very productive. Finnusertop (talk | guestbook | contribs) 19:10, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
I see in the Class B criteria that an infobox, images, tables etc are wanted. For reasons I don't understand, infobox is treated differently from images, a history of almost religious battles since 2005. Nikkimaria and I arranged that she doesn't revert my infoboxes and I don't add one to "her" articles. (That was before I was found such a dangerous person that I couldn't anyway.) It's - of course - pure ownership, but better than fighting. Some members of Classical music don't like ANY infobox. The project has a guideline not to have one for people (which is not binding, of course), has a frequently used one for orchestras, I made one for Bach composition and revived an older one for musical composition. In 2013, project opera installed one for operas, I suggested to use it for Carmen 3 June, - it was installed yesterday! 15 months pregnancy ;) - The ownership of BWV 120A would be a tricky question because it was forked off "my" 120. Sometimes I wonder what our readers think about the inconsistent results of our personal likes and dislikes ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:27, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
More specifically B article criteria say that infoboxes "should be included" when "relevant and useful to the content" (WP:BCLASS). These criteria are not objective, and the requirement is not categorical, but they certainly can't be reduced to mere preference of an editor - does s/he favor infoboxes or not. Consensus already would be the preference of more than one editor, but here I argue that the reader takes precedence: "Relevant and useful" to the content and not to the editing process - that is to say to the reader rather than the editor. The Classical music wikiproject is where the editors' concerns step into the picture. It's the task of the project to balance virtues like consistency of the articles within its scope, upholding principles such as non-ownership, as well as the friendliness of contributors toward one another. Obviously these goals can be in tension. What can I say? I wish you people get along so as to provide contributions today and in the future :) Finnusertop (talk | guestbook | contribs) 23:08, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
I left the project, but the music is still my topic. I decided to stay on WP but it was not easy, - I have a red category on my user page ;) - On my talk, I sing the praises of more than twelve users who didn't stay, several of them left over the infoboxes, - the saddest aspect, if you ask me. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:16, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
Editors' yearning for respect, civility, communality and rewarding collaboration should not be ignored. When I re-joined WP over a year ago I was a bit disappointed in how little collaboration there was - or that it had gone to hiding. It took me months to be adopted, no one ever invited me to a Wikiproject. I heard TAFI was not very successful either until a few weeks/months ago. With all its ideals of collaboration I think its the area where Wikipedia as a whole is severely unexhausted. Maybe we should change WP slogan to "the free, collaborative encyclopedia that anyone can edit". If I ever get doubts about staying, I know there are friendly editors out there, and Editor Retention. Finnusertop (talk | guestbook | contribs) 23:40, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
The current slogan is certainly wrong if an editor is prohibited from adding an infobox to his own article. I am a member of WP:Retention, and our more private record is not bad (if you look at the second part of the list) ;) - Want to help? We are merri-ly unorganized, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:51, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
Sure, I could join. I've already been thinking about it and now that for once I am invited to a project, I find it hard to refuse ;) Finnusertop (talk | guestbook | contribs) 00:06, 1 September 2014 (UTC)
You don't have to join formally, just helping is fine! There are several great people collaborating who didn't out themselves as being part of a group of outcasts ;) (There's a warning on the talk of the missed users, - I had to add another one today, and don't get over the loss of this one yet whose talk looks so similar to yours, - sad.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:53, 1 September 2014 (UTC)
It's okay, I like formally joining groups. And I already contributed to this discussion. Finnusertop (talk | guestbook | contribs) 08:04, 1 September 2014 (UTC)


Hey, sorry if I messed up anything you were doing on Raven Tales just a moment ago.. I went to save a big article expansion I was working on and saw a conflict but couldn't figure out what changes were made. Looked like minor edits so I just went ahead and saved. Not sure if I screwed you up or not. Sorry! I'm going to bed now.. will probably continue reading more into the refs I added today, tomorrow. Lots more interesting info. Thx! David Condrey (talk) 07:55, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

Can't see anything important missing from my edits. If it was some minor copyedit I'll probably catch it later. Your big edit looks fantastic! Thanks for informing me though :) Finnusertop (talk | guestbook | contribs) 08:00, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
Finn! I miss you. I'm lonely editing all day by myself.. Come back ! :)) David Condrey (talk) 06:29, 4 September 2014 (UTC)
Ha ha, don't worry; I haven't left you. With only 82 edits on this page, I'm not even half way done :) Finnusertop (talk | guestbook | contribs) 07:26, 4 September 2014 (UTC)
It's the size that counts not the quantity :p We must be in very different time zones, cause I'm off to bed. :(( David Condrey (talk) 07:58, 4 September 2014 (UTC) :)
Good night! Don't be mad at me if you wake up to find that I have made some editorial adjustments :) Finnusertop (talk | guestbook | contribs) 08:00, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

EotW Hello

Hand.jpg The Friendship Barnstar
Nice to meet you. I see you recently signed on as a new member of the Editor Retention Project. The future of the Editor of the Week portion of the Project depends on nominations. You seem to be a Wiki wanderer. I would imagine that you run across potential candidates here and there. Please keep EotW in mind as you wander the hyways and byways of WikipediaWorld. ```Buster Seven Talk 20:31, 8 September 2014 (UTC)


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Hello, Finnusertop. You have new messages at Wikipedia:Today's articles for improvement/Article collaboration.
Message added 15:58, 9 September 2014 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

NorthAmerica1000 15:58, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Green tickY Noted - Finnusertop (talk | guestbook | contribs) 16:10, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

September 2014

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Fixed by me Finnusertop (talk | guestbook | contribs) 11:04, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

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  • Saving Trust]], found that the devices using the most power on standby mode included televisions, [satellite boxes and other video and audio equipment. The study concluded that UK households could

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Fixed by me Finnusertop (talk | guestbook | contribs) 00:46, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

Today's Article For Improvement star.svg The TAFI Barnstar
A barnstar for your significant work in improving the Raven Tales article. Thanks for your work to improve the encyclopedia! NorthAmerica1000 20:05, 12 September 2014 (UTC)
Thank you! The honor bestowed upon me makes me crow! I shall bear it with a great sense of pride and joy whenever I perform my Raven-like antics of accidental contribution and creation here on Wikipedia. Emoticon =v=.svg Finnusertop (talk | guestbook | contribs) 20:17, 12 September 2014 (UTC)
Well all right, and thanks again for your great work on the article! NorthAmerica1000 21:47, 12 September 2014 (UTC)


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Hello, Finnusertop. You have new messages at Talk:Consumer electronics.
Message added 06:00, 15 September 2014 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Performing a split has been proposed. NorthAmerica1000 06:00, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

DYK for Solar activity

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:18, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
Face-smile.svg Thank you! Finnusertop (talk | guestbook | contribs) 04:50, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

DYK for Animatronics

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:04, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

Call to action

Team Barnstar.png The Teamwork Barnstar
Thanks for working with TAFI and me in particular on Raven Tales which we tag-teamed pretty hard a couple weeks ago. The article received an excellent peer review which has motivated my intention to nominate it for featured list and/or possibly good article status pending some further edits to address issues left in the review. I don't plan to get to it until late in the week, most likely this weekend, but wanted to reach out and see if you'd like to work together on finishing this up. I think, more so than the fact that we've created a great article, its worth recognizing that we did so in hardly any time and having started with an article that was hardly even a stub. Great job. Thanks! David Condrey (talk) 05:43, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Finnair flight AY 915

Re: Finnair flight AY 915

Hi and thank you for your support! Perhaps you can get others to write to the same effect? Yours sincerely, Apanuggpak (talk) 06:44, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

Once the AfD closes, the article should be moved to Finnair Flight 915, per the naming convention for aviation accident/incident articles. Best not to move it before then, as it mucks up links to the AfD. Mjroots (talk) 21:42, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

Chinese typewriter collaboration

I have moved the draft version from my sandbox to the Chinese typewriter. I have credited you here and in the edit summary.

Ceosad (talk) 20:34, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

I found this and thought you might like it

Team Barnstar.png The Teamwork Barnstar
For cleaning up my edits, and beating me. ;)

— Preceding unsigned comment added by David Condrey (talkcontribs) 10:09, 8 October 2014(UTC)

Thank you so very much! :) Finnusertop (talk | guestbook | contribs) 11:24, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

Error fix

On XTools it reports an error on Animatronics about the use of a repetitive word. Do you know if there's any way to fix this? (e.g. The Late Late Show with Craig Ferguson) David Condrey (talk) 22:26, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

Hi! It's simply a false positive. X's Tools is automatic and can't read into the context; Late Late Show is a real thing and that's its real name. For comparison, we got errors on Raven tales for Bela Bela, too. Just ignore the false positives, I'm sure the reviewers do the same if they use tools like this. Finnusertop (talk | guestbook | contribs) 22:37, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

With the Century

Finn, in the future, when bringing your user drafts into article space, it would be better to use the "move" command to put it there. I'm gonna request a history merge from your userspace page so that your co-editor is properly credited, as is required by Wikipedia's copyright policy. Oiyarbepsy (talk) 14:23, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

International Airport

GA barnstar.png The Good Article Barnstar
Congratulations, International airport, an article you helped improve as an active contributor amongst the team over at the wikiproject Wikipedia:Today's articles for improvement has now been recognized with Good Article status here on Wikipedia. Your contributions among the the TAFI team and Wikipedia as a whole are appreciated. David Condrey log talk 08:00, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
Many thanks! Finnusertop (talk | guestbook | contribs) 13:35, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

DYK for With the Century

Thanks for helping the DYK project maintain the main page Victuallers (talk) 19:58, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
Return to the user page of "Finnusertop/Archive/2014".