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"Talk That Talk"

Calvin, you could've moved the content from Tomica's sandbox to "Talk That Talk (song)". The redirect could be deleted and then the sandbox could be moved :) Novice7 (talk) 12:55, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

I did? Lol. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 13:02, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Not pasting-move Aaron, move using the move button. WP:CSD#G6 and then moooovvvveeee.... :D Novice7 (talk) 13:07, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Ohhhh. Should that be done now? Lol. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 13:10, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

No, the article's already up, so admins won't delete it (unless you AfD it lol). It's okay. Novice7 (talk) 13:12, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Haha. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 13:15, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Could you sort out the release history table on Talk That Talk please? I don't know why Universal Music is going off on the side. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 13:50, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

THANK YOU!

I just have to thank you so much for using spaces after colons. Because you are one of the few people on WP who do this (except me, I'm really strong over whether you should use spaces or not). e.g. when you post on talk pages. e.g.:

: Hi! (space) :: How are you doing?

rather than

:Hi! (space) ::How are you doing?

When you respond to this message, you should make your reply about your usage of spaces in colons. Ian Streeter (talk) 13:47, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Calvin999. You have new messages at Talk:Where Have You Been.
Message added 23:57, 26 November 2011 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

| ^help_dןǝɥ | 23:57, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Calvin999. You have new messages at Talk:Where Have You Been.
Message added 23:58, 26 November 2011 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

| ^help_dןǝɥ | 23:58, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

There is no message?? Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 23:59, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Sorry... Both sections of Where Have You Been... I don't know what happened... | ^help_dןǝɥ | 01:09, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Discussion?

I posted a new message at the talk page of 'Project Chick' saying that it could be notable because it peaked inside the top twenty of the R&B chart. Please reply ASAP. Ian Streeter (talk) 16:35, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

It's to fast

Hey, Talk That Talk debuted at number 1 in UK. Great :) ... What I was about to say... I think that you shouldn't immediately create all the articles for the song that charted, because you know our deal.. I am working on the 3rd and 4th single. So what for example if Cockiness (Love It) is third? Or Where Have You Been? I think you should keep them in your sandbox first... — Tomica1111 • Question Existing? 20:04, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

But you also know out deal that I would edit the other chart songs. And I created all 14 articles about 3 weeks ago, I'm just removing the re-directs on a few and writing the article. So technically, I should be doing Talk That Talk (song). What if it isn't released as a single? That means I should be doing it. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 20:06, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

What do you want to say? That you are doing all the articles? How can that is possible? I am also editing here, you don't own the Rihanna's articles... — Tomica1111 • Question Existing? 20:16, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

When did I ever say that?? You've come here saying I shouldn't be creating anything just in case it is the 3rd or 4th single. A 3rd won't be released until January or February now, and I'm not waiting until then to write an article. What if Talk That Talk is not a single? Are you going to say that I can edit it and nominate it? I'm sorry but you did agree to it Tomica. Me and you for Talk That Talk, me for the first two singles and Other Charted Songs and you the third and fourth singles. If you didn't like it, you should have said. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 20:20, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

You are constantly saying it indirectly. When I said that you could work on all other non-single songs, I didn't meant to create them immediately and just add some nothing info into them. So what If I created "Talk That Talk", I could also created "Where Have You Been" and "Cockiness" ... but I didn't want to. What I want to say is you can keep them in a sandbox and adding additional information, and when some time passes you can create them. We are running too fast with the creations and nominations, so Rihanna's article can no live so much ...

Tomica, I created the "Talk That Talk" article, look at the history. I've only removed the re-directs for "Where Have You Been" and "Cockiness", and there is hardly "nothing" on them. It's too late now, I've written those two and they are staying. If I re-direct them, people will only remove the re-direct. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 20:29, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

So what If you created when I wrote "Talk That Talk". You created in a very bitchy way ! — Tomica1111 • Question Existing? 20:32, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Yes you did write TTT, did I ever say you didn't? And how is creating an article then re-directing it bitchy? I did it for every song on TTT. It happens all the time, Princess of China and Take Care were created by someone then re-directed for a few weeks. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 20:33, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

singlechart

Singlechart doesn't screw up reference links if used properly: all you have to do is add "refname=xxxxx" as a parameter, and it will match the existing name.—Kww(talk) 20:08, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

You can also say "rowheader=true", BTW.—Kww(talk) 20:09, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

I hate the pre-coded charts in the table, they annoy me. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 20:10, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

That isn't a reason to remove them. When the sources change (which they do, occasionally), I'm able to fix all the template usages at one time. Anytime you do it manually, a change in the source URL requires people to go through and change them one at a time. We still haven't recovered from the last Billboard URL change (or course, part of that is because Billboard completely screwed up their own site when they did it).—Kww(talk) 20:12, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

The way I want them was how they were before. Then Ellis changed all of them. So I changed them back. Just let me get on with how I want to edit the table format. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 20:16, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Calvin, it would a really, really fine thing if you would stop thinking of Wikipedia as your own private playground. There are others working here, you know. The project wouldn't be possible if there weren't. Let us work together, not against each other, okay? — JohnFromPinckney (talk) 08:05, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

We maybe had some disagreements JohnFromPinckney, but here I definitely agree. — Tomica1111 • Question Existing? 10:45, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

My private playground? Are you being serious? On articles I write and want to promote, I like using a certain way of formating the tables chart. Other people don't seem to have a problem when there is effectively one person who promotes articles, I don't understand why I am being hounded for it. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 13:03, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

My remark was serious, yes. I don't think you're being hounded, but I would like to whisper to you my feeling that you seem to take WP a bit too personally. It isn't (or shouldn't be) us against you; but when you write about how you like a certain way of formatting, and about how you want the tables, and when your edit summaries command others to "leave it" or "DON'T revert me again" or "Stop it", you come across as having taken ownership of certain articles, defending "your" work against any who might touch it. That's the impression you give sometimes, whether you realize it or not, and I wanted to finally mention it to you.

I hope you will keep up the hard work and continue to contribute to WP. I sincerely appreciate your efforts. I just hope you'll keep your mind on the collaborative nature of the project as you work, and remember to leave room for other people (newbies, for example) to collaborate.

And back to the thread's main topic: The singlechart templates make things a lot simpler and a lot better, IMHO, except for some cases like when a song is still flitting around the Billboard charts. You say above that you hate them, but I don't remember you providing specific complaints (or if you once said, I'm sorry I've forgotten). Why do they "annoy" you? — JohnFromPinckney (talk) 19:28, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Skipping straight to your singles template point to prevent me writing my reaction to the first paragraph. I don't like the singles template as I find it harder to navigate around and prefer the other way of writing it out. It's personal preference. There is no rule which says I must use the shortened style singles template. But, people seem to be focusing on me changing the format, and not that fact that it was like that before Ellis changed it to the singles template. So I don't see the big problem. Not to mention that you get a serious case of over linking. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 19:34, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

One Question

Do you want to make an article for every song from Talk That Talk? If so, I think it's gonna be great. :) Ilikeriri (talk) 17:35, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Lol, did you mean to put this on my user talk? I created all 14 TTT song articles about 3 weeks ago and re-directed them. The three bonus tracks charted in the UK, but reviewers didn't talk about those three, so they can't be created as there is no critical info or background info. I'll move this to my talk page lol. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 17:38, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

All of them? cool! u must be busy!Ben•TalkThatTalk2me 11:57, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Loud GAN

I reviewed and and sorry to say, I also failed it. See Talk:Loud (Rihanna album)/GA2 for notes I left. It's all in good faith. :) —WP:PENGUIN · ^{[ TALK ]} 22:04, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Great, because I need this. Today has been so shit. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 02:36, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Really?

Please find Talk That Talk (song) here and tell this to me: ... that "Talk That Talk" is the third musical collaboration between Rihanna (pictured) and Jay-Z? Created/expanded by Calvin999 (talk). ... Really created and EXPANDED by you? Then, how do you want we to have normal conversation here and to not be mad on you... — Tomica1111 • Question Existing? 17:24, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Calvin, with all the respect i owe to you, i have to admit that it was pretty rude to do that. I know Tommy was working on that in his sandbox since three weeks. You could have proposed the DYK to him and he would have nominated it (as i believe i should have been). Jivesh1205 (Talk) 17:31, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Sorry what? What is this about? Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 18:58, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

I see what has happened, and I'm really fucking pissed off that you think I would do that. I didn't nominate Talk That Talk (song) or Where Have You Been for DYK. SplashScreen has nominated them. I can't help that he thought I wrote what you wrote. So don't have at go at me. Why don't you try doing a bit of research before hand before coming to my talk page with all guns blazing accusing me of something that I didn't fucking do. SO sick of people having a go at me. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 19:05, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, you can't help NOW, but you could If you didn't copied my sandbox to the article though you know I worked on it, lot of time. I am mad, because I know If it was revert, If I was on your place, you would be 3x madder ! — Tomica1111 • Question Existing? 20:31, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Tomica, this is ridiculous. I had nothing to do with the DYK. If it is based on who created the article, then yes I did, 3 weeks ago, and re-directed it straight away. Look at the history. This is not my fault, take it up with SplashScreen, like I have. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 20:37, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

You create the re-direct of the article, while I have written it, first in my sandbox and then you copied in the article. And it was easy, this user thought that it was your work. And who the hell is he now actually? He doesn't have it's own user page and made two Rihanna DYK nominations. — Tomica1111 • Question Existing? 20:41, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

No. I created the redirect on November 6, you created your sandbox for TTT on November 16. I know, I didn't how he had done them. That's why I don't appreciate how you handled yourself in your first comment. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 20:44, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Apologies wouldn't go a miss? Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 13:43, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

I can apologies for this. However, I am still mad on you for not letting having a collaborative work when Rihanna articles come in question. Practically you have an owner attitude on them. And I don't. I am always open for collaboration. I have always been helping you with sources for "S&M" which you nominated 4-5 times for FAC (at the first FAC I gave you support on it, which was removed by administrators) and to be honest it's still doesn't have well formatted references. And what have you done when I nominated "Rehab"... You opposed right away... — Tomica1111 • Question Existing? 13:48, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Tomica, we agreed on something which you accepted. And I don't believe I have an owners attitude. Nathan is basically the only person to work on Mariah article and has promoted more than 40 I think. Jivesh is the basically the only person to work on Beyonce articles. Legolas is basically the only person who works on Gaga articles. But they don't get accused of ownership. I've said this before, I don't like doing joint GANs. Neither do a few other the people I've just mentioned. And with regard to the S&M FAC1, it didn't deserve a support, I realise that now. But giving a Support at FAC isn't just about giving one as we are friends, it's about whether or not the article is good enough. I Opposed to the same things which Penguin Opposed to, so I wasn't exactly wrong. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 13:55, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, they are basically the only person that work on someone's article. But you and me are not the only! We are two, and for that we should fairly split and make some reasonable compromise. And yeah, I agreed, but I didn't have on my mind that you would create all the articles right away when they charted. Because it's stupid. You created "Where Have You Been", so what If the song is the third single? You wrote the compo. and CR section... and then you will consider your effort and again argues. That's my explanation here. And your comment about the FAC was stupid. What I wanted to say is that I supported you in everything, you in none. And about Penguin, yeah maybe he gave an oppose, but also helped me and still helping A LOT. For that I got his Support now... — Tomica1111 • Question Existing? 14:01, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

I can't help that I have the time to do them. No it wasn't, it was perfectly valid, me and Penguin wrote the same things, and you asked him to help you considerably. I like to do things by myself as it makes me learn. I'm not bound by a contract. Some people write comments at FAC then don't bother to check back to see if you have amended them. I know why your support was removed. But Tomica, I try to remain impartial and not think of Rehab as an FAC which I want to be passed as I like Rihanna and it will be good for the Wikiproject. You can't do that, it's not fair. I know you supported with good intentions, but it wasn't right at the time. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 14:08, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Well I don't mind people helping me, as I also don't mind people asking me for help. I would rather help them. And it's obvious you don't want "Rehab" to pass. But leave that FAC stuff alone now that was not the main theme anyway... And yeah you act like you have ownership on Rihanna's article. And because of that two days ago I was so nervous and disapointed, so I want to retire forever. However, when I think with cold brain I am not, I am gonna stay here and edit her articles. And I don't care If you mind or not... — Tomica1111 • Question Existing? 14:22, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Seriously, don't even go there with that crap. I want the wikiproject to have an FA. As I said before, it's not about giving out Supports for the fun of it. There has to be nothing wrong or perhaps less than 5 minor issues in order to get a Support. And I can't believe what you are saying, you're taking this too far. I don't like having this conflict all the time with you. Do what you want to do, no one is stopping you. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 14:27, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

I cannot believe what I have just read through. I am disappointed by the fact that you two are taking such a competitive approach to Wikipedia. First the reactions I get for failing Loud and now this. I really have no problem with helping people, but it dissatisfies me to find such attitudes about WP:OWN. I am glad you are so enthusiastic about the project, but digressing from a discussion about DYK to one about Rihanna FACs gives me the impression of irresponsibility and incivility. Tomica, I am still happy to continue the copy edit for "Rehab" and will help you anytime Calvin. I am not the kind who enjoys holding a grudge; I forgive and forget. :( —WP:PENGUIN · ^{[ TALK ]} 19:25, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

The thing about the FAC was just an example that I have always helped to Calvin when I can... but he turned into something else. — Tomica1111 • Question Existing? 19:30, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

I can't be bothered with this. I don't feel the same about being on here as I did even just a few short weeks ago. I'm sick to death of people being like this with me. Bottom line is, I didn't create those two DYKs, I don't think I "own" Rihanna articles (as just explained) and FAC is not about handing out supports just because you are friends with them. I tried doing the professional thing to do on Rehab, but no, that is wrong as well. All I try to do is help people and it always gets thrown back in my face, and Shut Up and Drive is a perfect example Tomica. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 19:38, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Fool In Love

I could find just these: [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8]. I couldn't understand what are you asking from me because you asked me to "Rihanna any critics comments on Rihanna's Fool In Love." Lol. Anyway, I posted the links here because maybe you want to add them by yourself. I don't believe that more sources could be found because it's a bonus track. My love is love (talk) 17:00, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Hahaaa. Did I?! Thanks :). All of the reviews on Where Have You Been and Cockiness didn't mention it at all. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 18:53, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Calvin. Great job on all you're doing!! Just so you know, the "i" shoild be lower-cased. Oh, keep up the great work! Best, --Discographer (talk) 20:07, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. It's nice to get some praise for a change. So it should be changed even though the title is "Fool In Love" ? Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 20:09, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Yes. It's like the work "on", "in" (unless it's the first word being used; the first, and sometimes last, word in paranthesis; or the first word in quotation marks) should, grammatically speaking, be lower-cased, even if it's shown in the opposite manner. Personally I don't really agree with that either, but that's how it is! Best, --Discographer (talk) 20:15, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

I moved the page. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 20:19, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Thanks! Hey, check this out for example - Book:Mariah Carey. Best, --Discographer (talk) 20:21, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

OMG that is massive lol. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 20:39, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Look who is...

-- 1 NICKELBACK ROADRUNNER 225,325 -- HERE AND NOW

2 2 MICHAEL BUBLE REPRISE 218,815 +29% CHRISTMAS

-- 3 RIHANNA DEF JAM/IDJ 197,040 -- TALK THAT TALK

1 4 DRAKE YM/CM/UNIVERSAL REPUBLIC 173,618 -74% TAKE CARE

-- 5 MARY J. BLIGE GEFFEN 164,700 -- MY LIFE II-THE JOURNEY CONTINUES

If there was no Black Friday, Rihanna's sales would have been much less. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 09:17, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

OMG :/ ... Loud has sold more copies :/ — Tomica1111 • Question Existing? 10:26, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

True indeed. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 15:52, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Damn... Michael Buble's fifth week sales got higher. D: Shocked at how much Drake sold, should have sold more than that second week. :( — Status {^talk_contribs 19:59, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

You think Drake should have sold more even though he debuted with 630,000 copies? Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 22:53, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

I meant this week. xD He went down 74%; that's a huge drop! — Status {^talk_contribs 02:19, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Definitely a big drop. But do you remember the biggest? Jivesh1205 (Talk) 04:25, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

But albums that sell that high usually don't sell more than 200,000 in the second week. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 15:36, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Calvin, i am lost. What ere you referring to? Jivesh1205 (Talk) 15:50, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Like, Born This Way debuted with 1.1 million, then sold 174,000 in it's second week. When someone sells over 630,000 in the first week, they will not sell more than 200,000 the following week, because 630,000 is, for a lot of artists, 3 weeks worth of sales. (and check email) Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 15:54, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Fellow editors: Does anyone have a physical copy of the deluxe edition of Talk That Talk?

So that the full credits can be added to Where Have You Been, Cockiness (Love It) and Fool in Love please? I downloaded from iTunes so I don't have the booklet. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 16:39, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

No, but downloading the full deluxe album on itunes can give you the credits. I am asking for it for christmas, so i don't have it yet. Ben•TalkThatTalk2me 01:36, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Dunno if I got it. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 01:37, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Really? perhaps you should try synching your device to itunes again. Ben•TalkThatTalk2me 01:42, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

When I say i don't know, I mean I can't remember haha. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 01:45, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Oh, lol. Well i will ask other users b/c not everyone is a talk page stalker like me :). Also, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loud_%28Rihanna_album%29#Singles_2 there is not a singles "thingy" -i will call it- on the other albums. should they be added? this might have been discussed before, but i don't know. Ben•TalkThatTalk2me 01:52, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

• Yah I have it, gimme a little while and I'll add them. The full credits to "Where Have You Been" I added a few days ago already. - (CK)Lakeshade - talk2me - 01:53, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

  Oh yeah lol. Thanks :)

Done. - (CK)Lakeshade - talk2me - 02:24, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 12:19, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Dark Angels

Interesting, that nothing's mentioned of this aborted 2009 album which was to originally include "Te Amo" and "Goodbye". Best, --Discographer (talk) 21:28, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Sources? Ben•TalkThatTalk2me 01:59, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

No hard feelings?

Hi, Calvin. I'm sincerely sorry to hear you are having a bad few days, and I hope things turn around for you really soon. I hope there are no hard feelings about the S&M review discussion. There are certainly none from my side. Maybe I was out of line to suddenly jump into the discussion out of nowhere, and possibly the words "owe" and "out to get you" were stronger than they needed to be. Everybody knows how hard you work on the Rihanna articles and everybody appreciates it. I know you’ve put really a lot of work into S&M and it seems like you’re making some good progress with the reviewers’ concerns. That’ll be great if you can get it to FA. Keep at it and stay positive, and I know you can do it! Take care and talk to you later, Moisejp (talk) 06:08, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Okay thanks. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 22:35, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

"Red Lipstick"

Yeh, the template's on my watchlist. Best, --Discographer (talk) 22:38, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Lol. What do you think of the article? Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 22:38, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

I think you are a great editor! Best, --Discographer (talk) 22:40, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Ahh! Thanks! At least you think I am! haha. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 22:41, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

!!! Best, --Discographer (talk) 22:42, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Red Lipstick

[9], [10], [11], [12], [13], [14], [15]. Bye for now. It's 00:53 in my country and I am very, very, very tired. I won't be here the next two days but I'll try to find more on Monday. My love is love (talk) 00:01, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Wow thank you! Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 00:05, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Re:

Ok, so you failed it. However, I would like to dispute a few points - I feel the failing was far too quick:

• Prose - Fair enough, but prose issues are easily able to be pointed out and fixed. Leaving me little to nothing to work with doesn't help me improve this. Further, WP:GACN notes that all the content has to do is "be clear and not confusing" and "follow an established system" of spelling/grammar, as well as meet the four MOS pages noted. You haven't shown me policy to show why you failed it.
• Credits - Once again, easily fixed. I have access to the album's liner notes, either on my PC or via Allmusic. Easy fix, and not even required.
• Infobox - Easy fix.
• Coverage - You failed both there, but WP:GACN notes that:

Point A means that the "main aspects" of the topic, according to reliable sources, should each be "addressed" in the article; it does not require comprehensive coverage of these major aspects, nor any coverage of minor aspects. For particular types of article, WikiProjects often provide helpful advice on what the main aspects are likely to be. For an article on a work of fiction, a summary of the plot and a discussion of the reception are usually required. For an article on a disease, the causes, symptoms and treatments are usually significant.

Point B raises two issues. First, the article should avoid undue emphasis on tangents, such as coatracks, and trivia. The inclusion of details and minor aspects can contribute to good writing, but such details should not overwhelm the article. Second, the level of detail of each aspect of the topic should be appropriate to the article and kept in balance: where an aspect of the topic involves information which is or could be covered in more detail by another article, the article itself should summarize this information with suitable links, such as

Main article: (the background article)

, where appropriate.

Taken together, these criteria mean that no obviously important information should be entirely absent from the article, and the level of detail should be appropriate to the significance of the information. It is better to have an article that covers the essentials well, based on reliable sources, than a diffuse article relying on trivia or unreliable sources to flesh it out.

I don't see how it fails this - it covers all important details and does not go off on tangents, cotracks, or trivia.

• Images/Audio - WP:GACN notes that GAs are not required to have images, but if you wanted one, there are easily available ones on here for Chapman. I cannot upload audio as I lack the software to get it and, due to complicated circumstances, likely cannot get it. If I was able to, it would be up by now.
• Overall - You say the article is 'lacking in nearly every way' - give me some examples. Much of what you cite is personal or formatting, but I don't want to have this sit unnoticed for another couple of months if it gets improved just to have it fail. If you are going to fail it, give me some advice on what to fix - although the only real problem is grammar, and that can be easily fixed. Toa Nidhiki05 03:16, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

I've looked through some of your other nominations, and they look a lot better to me, but this article is lacking, simply as. There is barely any prose. And also, there is a back log in GANs, not all articles can be placed on hold and there is no rule which says I must place on hold for you. Your other nominations look a lot better, but You Reign has next to no information. I don't see how it can become a GA. And I did leave two paragraphs of why I failed it, there are things which you can take from take. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 10:19, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

TTT song articles

Why are you creating so many song articles? They will most likely remain stubs for the rest of their existence. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 07:24, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

True... or probably just wait for more information. — Tomica1111 • Question Existing? 09:48, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

I doubt it. Fool in Love is roughly the same length as Raining Men, and that is GA. I doubt I will be making anymore, as there is not any chart info for the other songs, apart from one. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 10:22, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

But the article is very short. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 10:34, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

I can't help that Rihanna hasn't shot videos for all of the songs or done a lot of promotion such as a 4 night review which could be added to the article. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 10:36, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Okay. But do think of what you have just written, especially about the a lot of promotion stuff. And have a look at this. I don't want to stress on this anymore. Bye. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 10:38, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

(edit conflict) But it is true Jivesh. If Beyonce hadn't of shot videos or sang the songs live, her "song" articles would not be as long as they are either. You just have to use what you have got and go from there. Besides, I wrote Red Lipstick last night, I'm not done yet. And Start Over does have section which is debatable. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 10:47, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Explain the last part of your message to me. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 10:48, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

The Song structure section. It's basically made up of lyrics. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 10:50, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

And that's what song structure means. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 10:58, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Wikitable Sortable Plainrowheaders

The song pages with the "Wikitable Sortable Plainrowheaders" chart tables aren't working. For example, Marry You and Don't Wanna Go Home. Could you please fix this? Thanks. :) - Easy4me (talk) 11:44, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

I can do it in a few hours, I'm going out with my dad now. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 11:46, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Wait, make that... ALL OF THE CHARTS SECTIONS HAVE BEEN MESSED UP! We need to contact some other users and spread the word so that this can be solved. - Easy4me (talk) 11:52, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

The funny thing is that all of Lady GaGa's song pages aren't messed up. Hmmm... - Easy4me (talk) 11:55, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Can you help out at Single Ladies (Put a Ring on It)?

Since you write music-related articles, can you please lend a hand at Single Ladies (Put a Ring on It), which is a current FAC? Thanks --Sp33dyphil ©^hat_ontributions 05:05, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

I already have done and Supported it. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 12:32, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Ooops, just realised. Sorry. --Sp33dyphil ©^hat_ontributions

DYK for Talk That Talk (song)

Thanks from the DYK project Victuallers (talk) 00:03, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Sorry this isn't for me. There was a mix up from the nominator. The person who deserves credit for this DKY is User:1111tomica. He wrote the article, I merely put the sandbox into mainspace, but the nominator (Splashscreen) thought I was the creator. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 00:27, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your honesty. This is no big deal though. I suggest you cut and paste the template into the right place with a little note. I can do this if you want but its obviously your gift. Victuallers (talk) 10:02, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

No it's okay, I've done it. I don't class this DYK for me at all. But hopefully the ones I submitted for Red Lipstick, Where Have You Been and Cockiness (Love It) will be approved :). Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 11:34, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

A friendly reminder

I see that you've been creating a bunch of articles for Talk That Talk, and I just want to remind you that none of them should be nominated for GA (excluding the singles) until there's a confirmation of no more singles coming out. We had an issue with songs from 4 becoming GA articles and then singles; so I just don't want to see it happening here. Just a friendly reminder. Keep up the good work. :) — Status {^talk_contribs 03:44, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Yes I know. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 13:12, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

A major correction is needed here... It is not "songs" but "song". And nothing like this has occurred "GA articles and then singles". Next time, please verify before you write. Things like this have happened but not with 4. Is that okay? Be careful next time. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 05:08, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

I think you misunderstood. "I Miss You" is also a GA and it could become a single. "1+1" too, but I would doubt it. Don't take things so seriously; I was just reminding Calvin to not nominate any for GA since there's a chance they can become singles. — Status {^talk_contribs 00:22, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that Red Lipstick and Fool in Love won't become singles anyway, as they are the deluxe tracks. Talk That Talk I think is the third, and it wouldn't surprised me if Where Have You Been and We All Want Love/Drunk on Love become singles. Cockiness and Birthday Cake won't be. I don't think TTT will have as many singles as Loud did. I think more like four or five, not seven. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 15:14, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Hey

Hey Calvino :) How is all? You're semi-retired too now? :( It looks like Wiki is losing its most valuable pop-music contributors! So when are you travling across the Atlantic? and How do you like TTT? As I predicted, with "YDO" not doing well, the album isn't going to hold afloat very long. I mean how dumb was it to release the album while still tied down to that tour? She has legit no opportunity for promo at all.--CallMeNathan • Talk2Me 17:35, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Hey, I'm good thank you. Yes, but it's only temporary; there has been so much drama recently that I decided to limit my time on here for a while, some people have not changed in the slightest, even though they preach that they have. I come to the U S of A on the 24th :). We Found Love is still making too much of an impact at the moment, You Da One hasn't had any promotion. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 17:48, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

I really hope soon everyone can get back into it like old times! Yeah, as you must have noticed, I have had my fair share of scuffles on Wiki lol. As for Riri, I still don't think things are going well. In the second week, the album tanked out of the top-five in most countries, and "YDO" is out 3 weeks already and not climbing. Lets wait and see though! If MC makes a comeback and all, I hope you'll be helping me with the new era :)--CallMeNathan • Talk2Me 19:08, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Haha. We've seen that with the release of a video, Rihanna's songs slay! We Found Love is a perfect example. Unfortunately, Rihanna is a singles artist. It's a shame because Loud and Talk That Talk are really good albums. I thought Mariah was releasing an album like, now lol. And yes of course I will help :) Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 19:18, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Yeah she is :( Her singles do really well but the albums tank. I don't know, we'll have to see! Lol, not yet, but hopefully well have a new single by January-February :)--CallMeNathan • Talk2Me 19:20, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Her albums do well in Europe because of her European appeal, the sex and that. Lol. Cool, this is her last album contractually isn't it? With Def Jam? Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 19:24, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

And the fact that she works with European producers and incorporates elements of Euro-dance etc. I believe so, I just really hope its a totally different and great album. She needs to redeem herself from Memoirs!--CallMeNathan • Talk2Me 20:24, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, working with the same two people on Memoirs was a big mistake. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 20:28, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Big time! It wound up sounding very similar and not original or innovative, aside from the fact that I always disliked that writing duo. I hope she doesn't just work with JD and Randy again, I want her to experiment and work with new producers etc. Let's see!--CallMeNathan • Talk2Me 20:40, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

To be honest, I want another TEOM/Butterly. JD I don't mind, because they do make magic. And I just wish she would write with Walter A again. I'm going out now, speak to you later. Don't leave it so long! Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 20:46, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Hey Calvin

I'm not sure if you missed this or not, but per WP:ALBUMCAPS all Spanish-language titles must not be in uppercase after the first word. So "Te Amo" would need to change to "Te amo". I understand it is not a Spanish-language song, however, its title is. Best, Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 14:43, 7 December 2011 (UTC)  Done Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 14:46, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Nicely done and also congrats :-) Happy holidays, Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 14:51, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, you too. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 14:52, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Wait! Are we talking about "Te Amo" by Rihanna? If so, then ALBUMCAPS doesn't apply here because "Te Amo" is an English-language song even though it has a Spanish-language title. ALBUMCAPS refers to foreign-language songs, not simply the title. Erick (talk) 15:49, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Yea we are talking about that one. Hmmm, I guessed I read it wrong :-( My bad. Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 15:53, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Erghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Lol. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 17:46, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Lol, what happened to you Calvin? Jivesh1205 (Talk) 17:52, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Nothing happened to me. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 18:02, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Lol. You made me laugh with that 'Erghhhh'. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 18:08, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Lol. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 18:18, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Sowwrry :p Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 19:50, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Haha it's okay. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 19:54, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Pon de Replay on hold

I reviewed it, but it has some flaws; please address the issues-SCB '92 (talk) 13:14, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Okay thanks you. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 17:17, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Lol yeah I posted thanks on the review page. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 19:05, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Rihanna Photo

Rihanna's file photo on her page Rihanna isn't very, um attractive. and she normally doesn't look like that, right? i think we should replace it with a more appealing photo. i'm not being picky, it's just that i don't think it is a good way to represent rihanna on here. your thoughts? Ben•TalkThatTalk2me 22:45, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

The picture was simply awful. I changed it ;) ! — Tomica1111 • Question Existing? 22:53, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Yeah that one is better. There aren't any straight on, clear and close up ones of her face. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 22:54, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Tom :).Ben•TalkThatTalk2me 23:12, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Do you remember?

I see you are starting to work on AGLM singles. Before starting expanding them, have in mind this! — Tomica1111 • Question Existing? 21:30, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Working on We Ride is barely "all singles". Plus, you haven't touched Unfaithful since the day you posted that message. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 13:46, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Where Have You Been

The DYK project (nominate) 16:03, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks :). Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 16:08, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

I Wanna Go

Hey, Xwomanizerx hasn't been active on Wikipedia due to personal issues. I see that you failed the article, but I still fixed the issues you noted on the review. Can you please comment further, so I can improve the article and nominate it again? Thanks, Calvin. :) - Saulo ^{Talk to Me} 04:53, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Hey, if you want to re-nominate on behalf of him then I will do the second review, and you can address the points. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 12:22, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Ok, I will. :) - Saulo ^{Talk to Me} 16:06, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Take a Bow

Hi Calvin, I was just going to go through "Take a Bow" fixing typos and whatnot as a standard part of my GA review. Do you mind if I do so? It would require you to stop editing the article for a bit to avoid edit conflicts. Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:44, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Oh sorry! I won't edit it until you say. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 12:46, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

I hadn't started yet; I noticed while doing the stability check that you were busy editing, so I thought it would be a good idea to let you know first. K, I'll be right on it! Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:48, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

K, my copyedit is done. Sorry it took so long; something came up. Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:51, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Lol that's okay. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 13:51, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

I think that... "clearance sale".... was because the page hadn't finished loading when I saved it. Stupid Indonesian connection, lol! Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:11, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Looool Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 14:29, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Lol

Don't be silly Calvin. You know how much i appreciate you. I will do it. This time, i am going to stick to what i am saying. You will have it tomorrow before you come back. I have been a bit tense these days. That's why i edited Beyonce only. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 13:56, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Okay, I thought you might have been annoyed with me from something. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 14:00, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

The day I am, I will tell you. Lol. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 14:01, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Message to Talk Page Stalkers!

Does anyone have the album booklet for Music of the Sun please!? Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 17:14, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Yes, i do! Ben•TalkThatTalk2me 00:36, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Lol, I've adapted the credits from a website now! haha. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 00:37, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

:) uggh so sick of school can't wait for Christmas break. can start editing again. so do you know when YOU DA ONE was confirmed as the second single? not to put it in the article, but something weird happened on here regarding that. Ben•TalkThatTalk2me 00:43, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Lol, it says on the article? Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 00:47, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Hmm, i think someone on here works in the music business with rihanna or something. 5 DAYS before the confirmation, this user said the second single was You Da One. i looked EVERYWHERE and it wasn't confirmed. it was five days after and didn't reply to me when i asked him/her how he/she knew. Ben•TalkThatTalk2me 00:52, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Maybe. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 00:55, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

MOTS

Great work on the article. It's hard to find information this ancient through the web only. References look good. Problem here is the prose. Some prose things I came across that may confuse readers as they did to me.

• "The two met in December 2003 through mutual friends of Rihanna's and Rogers' wife, whilst the couple was on vacation in Barbados, because of how Rihanna's friend had told Rogers' wife how the aspiring singer was always singing and performing." - Could you explain. It is hard to understand. "Through mutual friends"? "Because of how Rihanna's friend had told Rogers' wife how the aspiring singer was always singing and performing"?

  Rihanna's friend knew Evan Roger's wife, that's how Rihanna and Evan got introduced to each other. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 22:39, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

• "Rogers' asked Rihanna and her two friends to come to his hotel room" - Should this be "Rogers' wife"? If not, why the apostrophe?

  Why would it be his wife? She is not a record producer who wants Rihanna's for audition, he is. Have reworded this anyway. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 22:39, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

• At the age of 16, Rihanna was signed to Rogers' and Carl Sturken's production company, Syndicated Rhythm Productions, where she was given her own lawyer and manager." - "where"? Do you mean "by which she was given"?

   Done Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 22:39, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

• "where Rihanna auditioned for him and music mogul L.A. Reid, in his office." - Maybe it is best to just start a new sentence: "Rihanna auditioned for Jay-Z and music mogul L.A. Reid, in his office" because this sentence is confusing as it is now.

   Done Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 22:39, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

• Critical reception looks troublesome. I think it needs to be better organized. The positive reviews look mixed with the mixed and negative ones. Maybe organize into differeent paragraphs. One para is problematic.

  Have spilt into two. Postive, then mixed/negative.

With holidays coming up, I have three massive school projects to do that I have been procrastinating with, so I do not have time to do a thorough ce. Maybe the GOCE or Baffle can help you. Thanks. —WP:PENGUIN · ^{[ TALK ]} 22:31, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Okay thanks. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 22:32, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Well...

... I don't understand your question. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 04:53, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Anyway you did an amazing job. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 04:54, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

I was saying that when you look at the old (before I started editing) and current version, visually they don't look too different. But the content is lol. It was a mess before. There was so much WP:OR and repetition. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 10:09, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

You are welcome. And i am happy you noticed it (at last). Jivesh1205 (Talk) 10:27, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

I think you are best at writing composition sections. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 10:30, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Lol. Are you serious? You make me so happy Calvin. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 10:32, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Yeah. I didn't even know that reviews had spoken about the instruments used etc. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 10:33, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

That's why I always tell you that it is not only about Beyonce's songs that critics write so much. You see. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 10:35, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Not all Rihanna songs get the same level of commentary. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 10:39, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Do you think all Beyonce songs get that? Jivesh1205 (Talk) 10:40, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Definitely did on 4. There is more to talk about on 4 vocally, like Love on Top for instance. (Even though the highest note is B5, not C6). Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 10:42, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Vocals make barely 10% of a composition section. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 10:48, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Yeah but there is more to talk about with Beyonce's vocals because, well, she shows more! haha. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 11:04, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Well, it is true but look at her articles. I try to make the most of her vocals in the Critical reception. I think you should try to exploit your references to the maximum. If I can do it along with so many editors, you can also do it. That's why i tell you to use a sandbox... because when you use one, you can experiment... write and erase whatever you want till you finally get something satisfactory. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 11:09, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Why are your repeatedly nominating this? Jivesh1205 (Talk) 11:16, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

For a Peer review??? Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 11:22, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

No. For FA? Calvin, it i will never pass. I mean FAC reviewers do not look for such articles. It lays very little emphasis on the composition. Did you see the problems i faced with "Single Ladies"? I had to re-write the composition completely. See how it is now. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 11:24, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

I haven't. I've listed it for a Peer Review. And at the last FAC the composition wasn't a problem, it was the background, which has now been done. Only prose. No one had any problems with the references either. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 11:26, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

There are many problems with the references. No one raised any concerns with SL composition when it was peer reviewed but did you see what happened at the FAC? Just in case you did not know, people tend to leave the worst and harshest comments for the FAC itself. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 11:30, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

I hope you noticed that i re-wrote the Critical reception completely. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 15:54, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

No?! Lol. I don't know if you don't tell me! Haha. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 16:04, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Well, it is very obvious. It is completely different from what it was like yesterday. And i thought that the first thing you do when you log in is to check whether the articles you have written were edited in your absence or not. Coming to that video, i just love everything about it. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 17:40, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Jivesh, I simply hadn't noticed you had redone that section as well. I don't scan every Rihanna article for every change when I sign on everyday. It was only by chance that I happened to see you had done the composition section. If you don't say, then I don't know! lol. Do you think you could do the same for S&M's composition? Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 17:43, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Okay. Maybe i will do it but i won't promise anything simply because i have to take all Beyonce GAs one by one to fix small issues that have arisen over the years. Her old GAs have kind of deteriorated. Well, they are still pretty much respectable. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 17:47, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Do you think I should expand the chart performance section? Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 17:50, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Expand? Are you joking? It is simply HUGE. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 17:52, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Really? I thought I could have expanded the Australasia paragraph. Rihanna was announced as the biggest selling singles artist this year in the UK today. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 17:54, 15 December 2011 (UTC) I was talking about S&M for some reason, not We Found Love. LOL. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn}

It is over detailed. Wow that's great but it is quite obvious judging from the number of singles she releases and especially that she/her label always capitalizes on the festive season. Yes i know it was for S&M. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 17:57, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

We Found Love is over-detailed? I haven't touched the prose in section for weeks. Lol. It needs to be like that for North America because of the records. I could be a longer lol. But it's a good length at the moment. Eventually, I'd like to make it an FA. Only a few Rihanna articles are capable of being an FA I think. Most aren't comprehensible or have the amount of info needed for FA. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 18:01, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Yes, this is the best example of over-detailed. Sorry for my honesty. Calvin, i can assure you that for me, comprehensiveness is not measured by the amount of information you have about recording and mixing. It is about the remaining sections (according to me). As Rihanna's articles currently are, i cannot choose one that can be FA. The main problem in her articles is that too much emphasis is laid on chart performance and live performance. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 18:07, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

I removed the radio and airplay info. I think only five Rihanna articles would have the ability to pass at FAC. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 18:19, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Five? List them. My next target is "Halo". I think only this one has a shot in the Beyonce Wiki-project. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 18:21, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Umbrella, Rude Boy, Hard, We Found Love and of course Rihanna. Potentially Loud. And only Halo? I think Run the World and Telephone could be. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 18:26, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

RTW and Telephone would fail miserably. Tommy told me that he is doing "Umbrella", which indeed has a shot because if its legacy. The others you mentioned... I would say none of them (as they currently are) but if i had to choose, it would be WFL. The others are out of question. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 18:30, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

What do you mean "Until you provide the lists". Articles don't use the succession boxes anymore. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 18:42, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

You have to provide the lists of number ones per country for that year. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 18:45, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

K. Have you ever nominated for Good Article Topic? I hope to do so with Music of the Sun when it passes. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 18:46, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Doesn't matter, I'm signing out for a bit, getting annoyed. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 18:52, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

No. Why? Please tell me. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 18:53, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm not telling you. I've learned the hard way, several times, not to voice my opinion. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 19:00, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Email me. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:02, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

That wouldn't solve anything, it would make it worse for us. Forget about it. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 19:03, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

So you are angry at me? Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:06, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

It's an amalgamation of things. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 19:07, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

It's okay Calvin. Take a chill pill (away from Wikipedia). Then come back. See you later. Take care. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:09, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

I will be, and I'll be gone a while. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 19:10, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Cockiness (Love It)

Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:02, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 12:16, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

MOTS

Great work on the article. It's hard to find information this ancient through the web only. References look good. Problem here is the prose. Some prose things I came across that may confuse readers as they did to me.

• "The two met in December 2003 through mutual friends of Rihanna's and Rogers' wife, whilst the couple was on vacation in Barbados, because of how Rihanna's friend had told Rogers' wife how the aspiring singer was always singing and performing." - Could you explain. It is hard to understand. "Through mutual friends"? "Because of how Rihanna's friend had told Rogers' wife how the aspiring singer was always singing and performing"?

  Rihanna's friend knew Evan Roger's wife, that's how Rihanna and Evan got introduced to each other. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 22:39, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

• "Rogers' asked Rihanna and her two friends to come to his hotel room" - Should this be "Rogers' wife"? If not, why the apostrophe?

  Why would it be his wife? She is not a record producer who wants Rihanna's for audition, he is. Have reworded this anyway. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 22:39, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

• At the age of 16, Rihanna was signed to Rogers' and Carl Sturken's production company, Syndicated Rhythm Productions, where she was given her own lawyer and manager." - "where"? Do you mean "by which she was given"?

   Done Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 22:39, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

• "where Rihanna auditioned for him and music mogul L.A. Reid, in his office." - Maybe it is best to just start a new sentence: "Rihanna auditioned for Jay-Z and music mogul L.A. Reid, in his office" because this sentence is confusing as it is now.

   Done Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 22:39, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

• Critical reception looks troublesome. I think it needs to be better organized. The positive reviews look mixed with the mixed and negative ones. Maybe organize into differeent paragraphs. One para is problematic.

  Have spilt into two. Postive, then mixed/negative.

With holidays coming up, I have three massive school projects to do that I have been procrastinating with, so I do not have time to do a thorough ce. Maybe the GOCE or Baffle can help you. Thanks. —WP:PENGUIN · ^{[ TALK ]} 22:31, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Okay thanks. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 22:32, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Well...

... I don't understand your question. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 04:53, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Anyway you did an amazing job. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 04:54, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

I was saying that when you look at the old (before I started editing) and current version, visually they don't look too different. But the content is lol. It was a mess before. There was so much WP:OR and repetition. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 10:09, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

You are welcome. And i am happy you noticed it (at last). Jivesh1205 (Talk) 10:27, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

I think you are best at writing composition sections. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 10:30, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Lol. Are you serious? You make me so happy Calvin. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 10:32, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Yeah. I didn't even know that reviews had spoken about the instruments used etc. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 10:33, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

That's why I always tell you that it is not only about Beyonce's songs that critics write so much. You see. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 10:35, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Not all Rihanna songs get the same level of commentary. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 10:39, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Do you think all Beyonce songs get that? Jivesh1205 (Talk) 10:40, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Definitely did on 4. There is more to talk about on 4 vocally, like Love on Top for instance. (Even though the highest note is B5, not C6). Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 10:42, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Vocals make barely 10% of a composition section. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 10:48, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Yeah but there is more to talk about with Beyonce's vocals because, well, she shows more! haha. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 11:04, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Well, it is true but look at her articles. I try to make the most of her vocals in the Critical reception. I think you should try to exploit your references to the maximum. If I can do it along with so many editors, you can also do it. That's why i tell you to use a sandbox... because when you use one, you can experiment... write and erase whatever you want till you finally get something satisfactory. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 11:09, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Why are your repeatedly nominating this? Jivesh1205 (Talk) 11:16, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

For a Peer review??? Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 11:22, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

No. For FA? Calvin, it i will never pass. I mean FAC reviewers do not look for such articles. It lays very little emphasis on the composition. Did you see the problems i faced with "Single Ladies"? I had to re-write the composition completely. See how it is now. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 11:24, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

I haven't. I've listed it for a Peer Review. And at the last FAC the composition wasn't a problem, it was the background, which has now been done. Only prose. No one had any problems with the references either. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 11:26, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

There are many problems with the references. No one raised any concerns with SL composition when it was peer reviewed but did you see what happened at the FAC? Just in case you did not know, people tend to leave the worst and harshest comments for the FAC itself. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 11:30, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

I hope you noticed that i re-wrote the Critical reception completely. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 15:54, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

No?! Lol. I don't know if you don't tell me! Haha. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 16:04, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Well, it is very obvious. It is completely different from what it was like yesterday. And i thought that the first thing you do when you log in is to check whether the articles you have written were edited in your absence or not. Coming to that video, i just love everything about it. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 17:40, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Jivesh, I simply hadn't noticed you had redone that section as well. I don't scan every Rihanna article for every change when I sign on everyday. It was only by chance that I happened to see you had done the composition section. If you don't say, then I don't know! lol. Do you think you could do the same for S&M's composition? Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 17:43, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Okay. Maybe i will do it but i won't promise anything simply because i have to take all Beyonce GAs one by one to fix small issues that have arisen over the years. Her old GAs have kind of deteriorated. Well, they are still pretty much respectable. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 17:47, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Do you think I should expand the chart performance section? Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 17:50, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Expand? Are you joking? It is simply HUGE. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 17:52, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Really? I thought I could have expanded the Australasia paragraph. Rihanna was announced as the biggest selling singles artist this year in the UK today. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 17:54, 15 December 2011 (UTC) I was talking about S&M for some reason, not We Found Love. LOL. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn}

It is over detailed. Wow that's great but it is quite obvious judging from the number of singles she releases and especially that she/her label always capitalizes on the festive season. Yes i know it was for S&M. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 17:57, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

We Found Love is over-detailed? I haven't touched the prose in section for weeks. Lol. It needs to be like that for North America because of the records. I could be a longer lol. But it's a good length at the moment. Eventually, I'd like to make it an FA. Only a few Rihanna articles are capable of being an FA I think. Most aren't comprehensible or have the amount of info needed for FA. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 18:01, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Yes, this is the best example of over-detailed. Sorry for my honesty. Calvin, i can assure you that for me, comprehensiveness is not measured by the amount of information you have about recording and mixing. It is about the remaining sections (according to me). As Rihanna's articles currently are, i cannot choose one that can be FA. The main problem in her articles is that too much emphasis is laid on chart performance and live performance. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 18:07, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

I removed the radio and airplay info. I think only five Rihanna articles would have the ability to pass at FAC. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 18:19, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Five? List them. My next target is "Halo". I think only this one has a shot in the Beyonce Wiki-project. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 18:21, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Umbrella, Rude Boy, Hard, We Found Love and of course Rihanna. Potentially Loud. And only Halo? I think Run the World and Telephone could be. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 18:26, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

RTW and Telephone would fail miserably. Tommy told me that he is doing "Umbrella", which indeed has a shot because if its legacy. The others you mentioned... I would say none of them (as they currently are) but if i had to choose, it would be WFL. The others are out of question. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 18:30, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

What do you mean "Until you provide the lists". Articles don't use the succession boxes anymore. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 18:42, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

You have to provide the lists of number ones per country for that year. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 18:45, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

K. Have you ever nominated for Good Article Topic? I hope to do so with Music of the Sun when it passes. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 18:46, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Doesn't matter, I'm signing out for a bit, getting annoyed. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 18:52, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

No. Why? Please tell me. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 18:53, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm not telling you. I've learned the hard way, several times, not to voice my opinion. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 19:00, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Email me. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:02, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

That wouldn't solve anything, it would make it worse for us. Forget about it. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 19:03, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

So you are angry at me? Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:06, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

It's an amalgamation of things. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 19:07, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

It's okay Calvin. Take a chill pill (away from Wikipedia). Then come back. See you later. Take care. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:09, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

I will be, and I'll be gone a while. Calvin • ^{Watch n' Learn} 19:10, 15 December 2011 (UTC)