User talk:Bobbychan193/Archive 1

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Date range: December 2013 to July 2019

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Welcome to Wikipedia, Bobbychan193! Thank you for your contributions. I am Michaelzeng7 and I have been editing Wikipedia for some time, so if you have any questions feel free to leave me a message on my talk page. You can also check out Wikipedia:Questions or type {{help me}} at the bottom of this page. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

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Copy edit notes for Southwest Detroit Hospital

You've been busy! Are you sure you're a new editor? You have a really good grasp of editing and encyclopedic tone.

I don't have much advice to give you except for some tiny MOS notes as I reviewed Southwest Detroit Hospital. Don't feel that this minutia is a must-do for copyediting backlog articles, this is just to inform you on what I hope will be a long time as a volunteer editor.

• African American gets a hyphen when used as a modifier (MOS:HYPHEN).
• I felt "unethical medical decisions" was smoother than "unethical doctoral decisions".
• You changed "to this day" to "currently" which is better for tone, but still problematic. It's generally preferred to use {{as of|year|month|day}}) with the date when the fact was last verified (it's okay to use just the year or the year-month). That way the reader knows how current it is; some articles don't get updated very often. The template can be used to help editors find articles which need updating.
• "Purge Suey." Wikipedia uses the logical quotation system which places punctuation outside of the quotation marks unless it is part of the quote (MOS:LQ).
• to clean up the graffiti and interior debris I changed "clean up" to "remove". As a matter of tone, I don't care for "clean up", "found out", "slow down", etc., which are idiomatic and may also cause confusion regarding the sentence structure.

Thanks for all your contributions – it makes me look good by association! If you have any questions, feel free to ask. Happy editing! – Reidgreg (talk) 19:57, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

Hey @Reidgreg: I'm not a new editor per se. I regularly use Wikipedia for research purposes, and I've been a registered user since 2011 (though I started using Wikipedia much earlier than that). I haven't been particularly active (editing-wise) until last month, when I began copy editing articles with the c/e template listed in the community portal. (E.g. Keanu Reeves) A bit later, I found the GOCE, and I signed up as I enjoy copy editing. If I've mentioned elsewhere that I'm a new editor, it was probably in regards to the July Drive, which is the first GOCE Drive I've ever participated in.

Also, nice catches. I generally do my copy editing for each article in a single sitting, which makes it easy to miss small mistakes such as "Purge Suey." Thanks for these fixes, and I agree with all of them.

Finally, I'm currently in the process of copy editing my first GOCE Request, Porsche 919 Hybrid. I'd greatly appreciate it if you could review my edits, especially in regards to British English. (The article had a note at the top saying to use British English.) I'm American, so I might not know the subtleties in British English beyond the lack of the serial comma and spelling differences such as colour and tyre. Compounded with the fact that Wikipedia has its own standards, this could very well lead to missed errors, and I'd very much like another pair of eyes to assist. —Bobbychan193 (talk) 21:12, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

I used to do my copy editing offline and then make one big edit (after previewing a couple times) so I understand how a low edit count can be misleading. I don't mind checking that article when you're done. Though to be honest, whilst I'm pretty good with MOS, the other coordinators have better prose work at the FA level. Comparison of American and British English may also be useful. – Reidgreg (talk) 21:51, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

@Reidgreg: I just finished it. Thanks in advance, and thanks for that link as well. —Bobbychan193 (talk) 21:58, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

Copy edit notes for Porsche 919 Hybrid

Requested GA copy edit of Porsche 919 Hybrid.

One thing I should mention with Requests, if it isn't obvious, is that you have an extra resource available for copy editing: the requesting editor. The requesting editor is usually thoroughly knowledgable of the subject and the article's references, and available to provide clarification if parts are confusing or ambiguous, and you can bounce ideas off of them for the formatting and layout of the article. It's a good idea to leave a note on the requester's talk page explaining any major changes you made, if it isn't straight forward.

I worked on the following over three sittings; I'm losing my concentration a bit now and I hope it makes sense, but I don't want to hold it a couple days until I have more time. You made a lot of good changes to the article. There are a few points which I think should be dealt with for the copy edit, a few others which should be handled before going to GA review, and some optional stuff at the end. I also made some small changes to the article. So, here are my notes:

• Did you make any edits to the lead? (It's generally best to leave the lead for last, after you've copy-edited the body of the article and have a good understanding of the subject.)
  • Noted. That makes a lot of sense, and I don't know why I haven't thought of this yet. I will try to remember this in the future.
• I mentioned hyphenating compound modifiers above. Some copy editors will do this only when there is an obvious clarity issue (like "man eating shark") while others will do this to improve readability. I tend to fall into the latter camp, which isn't to everyone's tastes. With The car features two separate energy recovery hybrid systems I feel like that long string of technical words could benefit from a hyphen as The car features two separate energy-recovery hybrid systems to explicitly associate those words. I'm not going to say that's something you have to do, but you should consider it on a case-by-case basis.
  • Oh, there's an even longer one toward the end of the first paragraph: Its engine was a 2 L (120 cu in) 90-degree angled mid-mounted, V4 mono turbocharged petrol power unit. Firstly, we don't use commas to separate modifiers. (You'll see that a lot.) I'd probably hyphenate mono-turbocharged and would query the requester if "angled" is necessary. (If the 90-degree angle is the angle of the pistons making the "V", I might reorder it as mid-mounted 90-degree V4.)
  • This comes up again in the body, where it's even longer: The 919 Hybrid's engine was a compact and lightweight 90 degree cylinder bank 2 L (120 cu in) mid-mounted, V4 mono turbocharged petrol engine. The and at the beginning is a problem grammatically and because compact can be a noun or adjective, and you have to absorb the whole sentence to make sense of it. The "2 l" may also be problematic. I would probably leave out the "919 Hybrid" as assumed and recast it as: The compact and lightweight engine was a 90-degree cylinder bank two-litre (120 cu in) mid-mounted V4 mono-turbocharged petrol engine. ({{Convert}} is one of my favourite templates so I know most of its tricks. Here I used |spell=in to spell-out the input of "2" and |adj=on to hyphenate "two-litre".)
    • When I first saw these, I was a bit overwhelmed by the combination of jargon and the long string of modifiers, so I didn't really touch them. Your breakdown simplifies things a lot. I edited the article to incorporate "mono-turbocharged" and "two-litre (120 cu in)". I'll discuss "90-degree angled" with the requester.
      • Thanks for bolding your replies. You're right, if you're not sure about something then you shouldn't change it (especially in the lead). But if you find something overwhelming, then it's probably a problem for the average reader. If I'm not comfortable making a change on my first pass, I'll try to put in some little note, maybe a wikicomment or temporarily placing {{awkward}} or another Template:Inline cleanup tags to remind myself to come back to it. As I work my way through the rest of the article, I may learn enough about the subject to understand what the intended meaning was and fix it. If not, I might turn to other articles or delve into the MOS, or bring it to the attention of the requester noting the specific issue (and relevant guidelines if possible).
  • a carbon fibre and gold thermal airbox → a carbon-fibre-and-gold thermal airbox. I feel it's a little easier to read with hyphenation across the and so readers won't have momentary confusion as to whether it's talking about one thing or two.
    • Agreed.
• Its front was reshaped, and its weight was reduced by manufacturing the chassis as one. as one what? I assume "as one piece" but it should make that explicit. I think I'd prefer "as a single piece".
  • Agreed and fixed.
• while Bamber paired with Bernhard and Hartley to fill in for the retired Webber. Do three people make a pair? There's probably a better way of stating this, and maybe change the "fill in" as well.
  • I changed it to Bamber teamed up with Bernhard and Hartley, replacing the retired Webber.
• Do you think the acronym FIA should be expanded/defined? FIA is its common name in English, and FIFA usually isn't expanded (though that's an other stuff exists argument). At the least, I would suggest using the template {{abbr|FIA|International Automobile Federation}} the first time it is mentioned in a non-linked form.
  • I'm not sure. However, I did incorporate the template as you suggested.
• Just as an article should be consistent with ENGVAR and dmy/mdy dates, it should have either SI/metric or imperial measurement as the primary form throughout (with the other form given in round brackets). This takes us to the tyre size which is defined in Imperial terms. This requires another {{convert}} trick. We still want it to base the calculation on the source 14 inches but to reverse the order they're displayed. For this, we add |order=flip for {{Convert|14|in|mm|abbr=on|order=flip}} which gives us 360 mm (14 in).
  • Makes sense. I'll have to remember to look out for unit inconsistencies in the future.
  • Later on, I didn't make any changes between horsepower and kilowatts. Horsepower is used as primary when describing the automotive power but kilowatts is primary when discussing the electric motor. I believe these are the ways they are normally discussed, though it is inconsistent in the article. This may be a case where the needs of the subject/article can override the MOS guideline. You may want to discuss this with the requester, on the article talk page, or another forum.
    • I'll discuss this with the requester.
• The brake discs were made from internally ventilated light-alloy carbon ceramic materials and features power steering. The brake discs feature power steering?
  • I'll ask the requester about this.
• The rear system recovered thermal energy from exhaust gasses via an electric generator operated by an exhaust gas stream of two turbines in the exhaust system. This seems a little wordy. Can it be simplified (perhaps along with the sentence which follows it)?
  • You're right; this sentence and the one that follows it are extremely wordy. I shortened and combined both sentences to read, The rear exhaust system used a two-turbine electric generator to recover thermal energy from exhaust gasses, which exited from an off-central outlet on one side of the engine cover's dorsal fin.
• The front system utilised a 185 kW (248 hp) motor–generator (MGU) on the front axle to convert kinetic energy into electrical energy when braking. It was stored in water-cooled A123 Systems lithium-ion battery packs that were installed centrally in the passenger side, eliminating turbo lag. The it might be a little unclear so I recast this as: The front system utilised a 185 kW (248 hp) motor–generator (MGU) on the front axle; when braking, kinetic energy was converted into electrical energy, which was stored...
  • The end part "eliminating turbo lag" might not be clear. It might fit better if moved down a sentence or two. I assume this means that the stored electrical energy is used to power the motor–generator during initial acceleration (following a braking manoeuvre) in order to compensate for the turbo lag (turbochargers are powered by the exhaust and so have a responsiveness delay when depressing the accelerator). You might ask the requester about this.
    • I'll discuss this with the requester.
• In April 2013, Porsche named its first two drivers. Timo Bernhard and Romain Dumas were co-champions Are the two named people the first two drivers? The sentences could be combined to make this explicit, and maybe broken at the semicolon which follows.
  • Fixed.
• Porsche held its first two car endurance tests In this case there's ambiguity that might be solved by a hyphen. Does this mean the first and second endurance tests, or the first endurance tests for two cars together? The text which followed suggests the later, so I'd hyphenate two-car.
  • Fixed.
• between 24 to 26 March I feel that between/and or from/to would work better.
  • Fixed (from/to). Also moved it to the beginning of the sentence.
• (developed in Williams Grand Prix Engineering's wind tunnel in Grove and full-scale testing took place in Germany for correlation purposes) Would it make sense to change "Grove" to "the UK"? Or maybe it could be summarized a bit more, along the lines of: (developed by Williams Grand Prix Engineering with full-scale testing in Germany)
  • I agree with changing Grove to the UK. I'm not sure about changing it to "developed by Williams" though; the article seems to suggest that Williams' wind tunnel was used and that Williams was not involved in development. I changed it to read, (developed in Williams Grand Prix Engineering's wind tunnel in the UK with full-scale testing in Germany).
• and produce around 480 hp (360 kW) to 495 hp (369 kW). Here's another convert trick: {{Convert|480|to|495|hp|kW|abbr=on}} for 480 to 495 hp (358 to 369 kW). It makes it a little neater and more concise.
  • Fixed. Fixed another instance of this too. Very useful trick.
• Conversely, the car's kinetic energy recovery system was optimised to make it more powerful and efficient. The electric motor on the front axle, the power electronics and a new generation of lithium-ion battery cells in the in-house designed car battery were built and made more effective for producing more horsepower. I feel this gets a little repetitive and could be simplified/summarized as one sentence.
  • Fixed. It now reads, Within the car's kinetic energy recovery system, the electric motor on the front axle, the power electronics and a new generation of lithium-ion battery cells in the in-house designed car battery were optimised for producing more horsepower.
• The racing history section is more than half of the article. I'd note this to the requester and suggest summarizing it more succinctly, keeping the focus on the performance of the article's subject, and to be careful not to repeat too much material which is in articles on the various races. (I didn't check that section too carefully as I felt I would be tempted to cut a lot of material.) I also feel that it would beneficial to have some sort of introduction which is a general summary of its racing history, for readers who don't want to read the entire section.
  • I was also tempted to cut material at the time, but I thought it would have been a little out of my place as a copy editor, especially given how it was a Request article. I was tempted to add the Overly Detailed template (excessive amounts of detail that only interest a particular audience), but a direct discussion with the requester might be better. I will discuss this with the requester.
    • You're right, it's generally better to discuss. Sometimes inline tags are useful to make it easier to locate an issue in the text.

Optional stuff:

• ENGVAR looks good. While respecting the variation used by the article's authors, we should try to use common terms where possible. The only thing that stood out to me was "forwent", but as I investigated it I think a rewrite might be better. It's from these sentences: The 919 Hybrid's developers forwent their rivals' LMP1 experience due to their inexperience in the category. Because of this, they drew inspiration from prior forays with the 911 GT3 R Hybrid racing car from 2010 and 2011 and its hybrid-powered sports vehicle, the 918 Spyder. This is a fairly rough translation of the German source (from the 3rd sentence after "Höchste Effizienz"), put through Google translate yields On the experience advantage of their Competitors in the LMP1 category had to renounce the developers as newcomers. For that they could rely on the know-how fall back on the Porsche by the successful racing use of the 911 GT3 R Hybrid as well as with the likewise hybrid driven Super sports car 918 Spyder has collected. I might rewrite this as: The 919 Hybrid's developers were inexperienced in the LMP1 category, but drew upon Porsche's history racing the 911 GT3 R Hybrid in 2010 and 2011 and the 918 Spyder hybrid-powered sports vehicle.
  • Nice catch on "forwent"; I naively assumed it was a British term. Fixed.
    • It's a perfectly valid word, but it's unusual enough to give some people pause; we should use words which are more universal, when possible.
• I sprinkled in some non-breaking spaces between some number-unit and day-month combinations (MOS:NBSP). This isn't especially needed until the FA level.
  • I noticed in your edit that you used &nbsp_; (without the underscore) in place of regular spaces. I assume these are the non-breaking spaces you were referring to. I will look at the MOS page you linked. For the time being, I will continue to steer clear of Requests that are FA candidates.
    • Again: optional stuff. There are places where it's more needed. Like with Charles II, you don't want the II separated from Charles. You can use the html entity   or template {{nbsp}} or put the text in {{nowrap|text}}. To some extent, this is a weaker version of hyphenating: if two words are associated but it's inappropriate to hyphenate them, and a line wrap could cause disassociation and possible confusion.
• Layout: does the Complete World Endurance Championship results belong within section Racing History?
  • I feel that the legend at Template:Motorsport driver results legend should be included below the table in some form, rather than requiring the reader to chase links.
    • I don't know. I don't have much experience with tables and layout edits.
      • Layout, in a broad sense, is about presenting the article's contents in a logical order, often topically (by subject) or chronologically, with earlier sections providing the context needed to understand the later sections. (At a smaller level, layout is about the placement of images, the table of contents, and other floating and non-floating elements.) The results table gives the results of the racing history, so logically it would seem to fit within that section. The table key in the template is needed to understand the colour-coding in the table (the table also uses some unfamiliar acronyms; it would benefit from a legend key or notes).
• Infobox: This is a very small point of cleanup which isn't part of copy editing, but I like to do it. In infoboxes, creating line breaks with <br> has been known to cause problems with some mobile devices. So ideally, the line break should be accomplished using a template like {{unbulleted list}}. While html is generally faster and requires less server load, templates are more portable and easier to update with bots.
  • I saw that in your edit. Very interesting.
    • Using the template also makes it possible to quickly reformat by changing the template name (while keeping the parameters the same) for a bulleted list, numbered list, horizontal list, etc.

I hope this helps. My concentration is fading, so I hope this makes sense. Feel free to ask me if you have any questions, though I may be offline for most of the next couple days. – Reidgreg (talk) 20:32, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

@Reidgreg: Wow, thanks for the comprehensive run-down, as well as all of the fixes you've made in the article. I've responded to every single point you've listed; my replies are in bold. Feel free to respond to any of my replies or further contribute the copy editing of the article.

Feel free to take it easy for the next few days, and thanks again for your hard work. —Bobbychan193 (talk) 00:58, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

You're welcome! I can see you're doing a lot of good editing and I am looking at this as an investment – that whatever help I give you will be returned to the community many times over through your future edits. One more piece of advice I should give you: If you haven't already, start keeping a personal reference file of little notes about templates and MOS peculiarities. There are a lot of little tricks (like convert) which are useful but only come up in 5% of articles, and it can be quicker to refer to personal notes than to search for a template or guideline.

@Reidgreg: Thanks. I feel really welcomed. I've read through your replies as well.

I'll definitely do that! Where would you recommend I put it? I was thinking on a subpage of my Wikipedia userpage. Also, do you have a list of your own I can reference? —Bobbychan193 (talk) 18:36, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

I just keep a text file on the computer I usually edit from (and on a USB). I have set up pages in my userspace for maintenance tasks and DYKs, but most of the copyediting links there are for GOCE housekeeping. I've seen some GOCE coordinators use a series of collapse boxes, such as at the bottom of User:Miniapolis and at User talk:Corinne. You're free to manage your userspace however you want, so long as the general focus is on Wikipedia and editing. – Reidgreg (talk) 00:27, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

I see. Thanks for all the help! —Bobbychan193 (talk) 04:01, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

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