Batongmalake

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Reversing my edit on Pagadian City article, under "History"

Hi, I have been monitoring and managing the Pagadian article (on an "on and off" basis though) at least since 2009 or thereabouts. You may view my Wiki profile link:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Razzmatazz143#My_Growth_in_Wiki for your reference. I had been notified that you reverted my edit. I just felt that that entry on Olivar is unnecessary, going against the 2nd of the 5 Pillars of Wikipedia which is "should be in the neutral point of view" i.e. verging on personal sentiments, instead of being just straight-on factual and direct. I think it would be better if a separate article about him in Wikipedia be created instead, that is, as long as his notability could be verified and approved by the Wikipedia board and the article is in the neutral point of view. 👍👍👍 In this regard, I would be taking out the contents in question (again) unless you would give me a persuasive explanation why it has to be added. Razzmatazz143 (talk) 09:30, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

Comment Alright, I'll assume good intent for now and discuss here. To be honest, I can imagine an argument against the inclusion of that paragraph, but I must imediately object to:

(1) the argument against its factuality - All of the statements in the paragraph are facts, and are well cited, he was a church worker, he was assassinated, it took place near a military checkpoint, he was mourned in Pagadian, and he was honored by the Bantayog as a martyr (this is a technical term under its usage by the Bantayog, so I can't change it) of the resistance against the dictatorship (which was only from 1972-1986, if we're being strict about the facts about Marcos' powers);

(2) the argument against its supposed non-netural tone, since the words reflect the facts

Moving beyond those objections, though... my main concern is that "neutrality" often becomes an erasure the history of the |desaparesidos and Human Rights Violations Victims of the Martial Law era at the local level, creating what Wikipedia calls a WP:False balance When I said I would assume good faith, I meant I would presume that you are not questioning the facts of that history; I hope this is correct.

If "neutrality" here means "controversial-ness" or contentiousness, I must insist that controversy does not negate factuality.

With regard to Notability I must argue that the national recognition that comes with commemoration at the Bantayog ng mga Bayani introduces a presumption of notability within the local historical narrative - that he played a key role in important local historical events, and was honored as such in a national institution.

I believe that the narrative belongs in a discussion of local history because that's where its significance lies - in the history of Pagadian during the Marcos dictatorship.

I do acknowledge that the paragraph could be shorter, though. I just don't know how to write a shorter paragraph for this narrative, or I would have done so already. There's also an argument to be made for too much detail in the coverage of that specific historical era, but I have always believed that in such situations, the solution is to EXPAND the other sections, not shorten the other ones, and then, once sections are long enough, to then create specific sub-articles, not before. But that last was just my opinion.

Perhaps we can continue this discussion before we decide how to move forward. As an inclusionist, I would have preferred that factual, well-cited text be preserved while a decision is being argued, but - Batongmalake (talk) 15:46, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

Addendum to my comment - Having reread the section without the removed paragraph, I just realized that aside from (1) Failing to mention the desaparacidos and (2) Failing to point out that Pagadian had a well documented instance of such, the section ends with the impression that the protesters all came from the left. That would be a very dangerous misrepresenation which I believe needs to be addressed ASAP. - Batongmalake (talk) 15:50, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

Baguio Midland Courier

Hello.

I noticed that you were trying to create a draft for a future Baguio Midland Courier article in your sandbox. I've created a similar draft in my sandbox. Please feel free to reuse the information stated in that page. -Ian Lopez @ 13:08, 16 September 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Ianlopez1115:, are you still working on this? I don't have much time through to next year to do so, sadly. - Batongmalake (talk) 02:14, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

I am, just that it's in the back burner until April or May 2024 since I'm prioritizing the creation of a local reliable sources list plus at least one article to be created (or at least taken out of draftspace) in the next three months. -Ian Lopez @ 13:20, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

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