This page is outdated!
It was substituted by User:Iricigor/UE page on April 19th, 2008.

This page is about using diacritics in article titles on WIkipedia.

Introduction

edit

I have created this page just after article Novak Đoković was moved to Novak Djokovic. In my point of view, there were two opinions on this move:

Reasons to change title

edit

Reasons to change title were:

  • This is English Wikipedia. It should use English names and only English letters.
  • Also, Wikipedia should use most common used name for the subject (even if it is not correct).
  • Another argument is if we want English Wikipedia to use Đoković, we should also use in Serbian Wikipedia Andy Roddick, instead of Endi Rodik. Simply put, for English Wikipedia it does not meter how his name is written in Serbian language.
  • Other arguments for this move include
    • WP:OTHERSTUFF (it does not meter if other articles exists),
    • WP:NOR (there can not be original research) and
    • WP:RS (we should use only reliable sources).

Arguments against this move

edit

Arguments against this move consisted mostly on arguments that are not part of official Wikipedia policies, but are widely accepted.

  • Supporting editors also pointed out that WP:UE is not clear on diacritics.
  • Even more, WP:NAMEPEOPLE says we should use diacritics, like in Thomas à Kempis or Teresa of Ávila.
  • Also, if we use redirect pages and comment on letters with diacritics in opening line of an article, there is no real need for Wikipedia not to use correct title.
  • Wikipedia is using Unicode so there is no need to use only ASCII characters, like in old days. Or like many mass media or Internet standards still do.
  • Another argument is that for most popular sportsmen (or any other persons) there is no well established use of names in English language, like one can say for ancient Greek names or medieval kings. In this situations Wikipedia should more take care of correctness and educational point of view.
  • Also, argument with comparison on names in Serbian Wikipedia do no stand for it. Serbian grammar has clear rules how you should write foreign names.
edit

This is list of guidelines and interesting talk pages.

Guidelines

Talk pages

Active requests

edit

This is list of active RMs (Requests for Moving an article) related to this issue, that I know on April 11th, 2008.

  1. Dani Martín

Not using diacritics

edit

This is the list of articles that use English names as titles. Original name of the person have diacritics, but article title does not. I think this option is widely abandoned on Wikipedia.

Exception to my point of view might be letter ß that most often gets substituted with ss, but I do not think that discussion belong here.

Moved pages

edit
  1. Novak Djokovic, from Novak Đoković
  2. Malin Akerman, from Malin Åkerman
  3. SMS Friedrich der Grosse (1911), from SMS Friedrich der Große
  4. Iao Valley, from ‘Īao Valley
  5. Mexico State, from México (state)

With requested, but not accepted moves

edit
  1. Eoin MacNeill, Irish, original Eoin Mac Néill (1867-1945)
  2. Vicente Fernandez (golfer), Argentinian, original Vicente Fernández (1946- )

Without move requests

edit

Using diacritics

edit

This is the list of articles that use diacritics in article title. I think this option is widely accepted on Wikipedia. From my experience this is going to be a very long list. So, I would add some subcategories.

Comment: ET stands for non diacritics (or English) title.

In official guidelines

edit
  1. Thomas à Kempis
  2. Teresa of Ávila

Moved from ET

edit
  1. San Sebastián

Other moved pages

edit

This is a list of pages that are using diacritics in titles and have been moved around, but even in older version title had diacritics.

  1. Fürstenwalde
  2. Mixtón War
  3. Higaonna Kanryō
  4. Javier Farinós

RM to ET not accepted

edit

These articles are important for discussion. Someone requested move for them, but those moves were not accepted. You can check their discussion pages.

no article description diacritics non-diacritics
1. François Mitterrand president of France (1916-1996) 95k (29%) 232k (71%)
2. Éamon de Valera president of Ireland (1882-1975) 20k (17%) 97k (83%)
3. Kimi Räikkönen Finnish driver (1979- ) 228k (9%) 2.4m (91%)
4. Lech Wałęsa president of Poland (1943- ) 35k (4%) 826k (96%)
5. Níðhöggr Icelandic dragon 1.7k (3%) 59.1k (97%)
6. Franjo Tuđman President of Croatia 15k (21%) 96k (79%)

Numbers at the end represent Google search results (see explanation below). For those pages "most common name" (according to Wikipedia) is used in only 3-29% of web pages.

Non moved pages

edit

This list would be separated by some categories (nationalities, professions). I would start with very famous Serbs.

  1. Zoran Đinđić
  2. Slobodan Milošević
  3. Radovan Karadžić
  4. Ana Ivanović
  5. Jelena Janković

Top 20 or other famous tennis players

  1. Tomáš Berdych
  2. Fernando González
  3. Carlos Moyà
  4. Ivo Karlović
  5. Guillermo Cañas
  6. Björn Borg
  7. Mario Ančić
  8. Ilie Năstase

Names using Đ or đ

  1. Milo Đukanović
  2. Dino Rađa
  3. Srđan Lakić
  4. Milko Đurovski
  5. Duško Đurišić

Vietnamese

  1. Nguyễn Tấn Dũng

Kosovo Albanians leaders

  1. Agim Çeku
  2. Hashim Thaçi
  3. Hajredin Kuçi
  4. Kolë Berisha

Mentioned on Walesa's page

  1. Gerhard Schröder
  2. Göran Persson
  3. Wolfgang Schüssel
  4. Dag Hammarskjöld
  5. Halldór Ásgrímsson

Mentioned by User:Kubura on Talk:Franjo Tuđman
Very nice list (important persons)

  1. Bedřich Smetana
  2. Besançon
  3. Sissel Kyrkjebø
  4. Plácido Domingo
  5. Lech Kaczyński
  6. São Paulo
  7. João César Monteiro
  8. László Sólyom
  9. Călin Popescu-Tăriceanu
  10. José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero
  11. José Trinidad Cabañas
  12. Ivan Gašparovič
  13. Václav Havel
  14. Vladimír Špidla
  15. Adil Çarçani

Lists with big number of peoples' names with diacritics

edit
  1. List of Serbs
  2. List of Germans
  3. List_of_Spaniards
  4. List_of_Poles
  5. List of Czechs
  6. List of Swedes
  7. List of Croatians
  8. List of Bosnians and Herzegovinians
  9. List of Montenegrins
  10. List of Macedonians (ethnic group)
  11. List_of_Hungarians
  12. Category:Vietnamese_politicians
  13. in fact try Category:Lists_of_people_by_nationality

Google search testing

edit

To test which name is more common I performed this test using Google search engine. This test is absolutely not enough to give you answer which name is more common in English, but it can give pretty good suggestion. Test results also may not be the same all the time.

If you have Sömé Nãme, I compared it to Some Name. In Advanced Google Search page, in first field I have put "Sömé Nãme" (with quotation marks) and in unwanted words I have put "Some Name" (again with quotation marks). In Language field I have selected English. For the second test, I just change positions of "Sömé Nãme" and "Some Name". i.e. "Sömé Nãme" becomes unwanted. After searching, I take the Google approximation on number of pages that have one, but not the other name.

This test I used for articles that were requested to move, but those moves were not accepted. See that list.

Go to the top or back.