Template talk:German Federal States

How to place names

I'm looking to do a map like this for a different map of Germany, seen here. How would I reposition the names and shields of the states? --JamesR1701E (talk) 21:28, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

New map layout?

First of all, thanks to @Nick Mitchell 98: for his work on that map. But the current design has some flaws and disadvantages. Most importantly the territories of the small city-states were a lot more visible on the older map version with its additional blue on green contrast. Secondly, using flags instead of coat of arms may seem logical, but the CoAs are more distinctive and better suited to identify the different states. As third point: the positioning of the state labels is misplaced again and would need fixing - but I wanted to get some additional opinions about the 2 map versions first. Maybe the technical improvements on the template code could be implemented on the old version without changing the visible design? GermanJoe (talk) 22:03, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

I appreciate your thanks. I would like to clarify that the reason I commissioned this new map was so that it would: 1. Match the maps of past German nations (e.g. Template:German Empire States) and 2. Match the map used on the German Wikipedia for their article on the German states. I respectfully disagree with you in your statement that the CoAs are better suited for this map as I believe that the flags are more easily identifiable (especially to people that know little about Germany) and the flags are simpler designs compared to the cluttered CoAs and hence provide a cleaner-looking template.

Could you please tell me how the state labels are misplaced so that I know what will get fixed? Thanks. Nick Mitchell 98 (talk) 22:13, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

They are overlapping for the Northern states (especially Schleswig-Holstein with Hamburg, and Mecklenburg-Vorpommern with Brandenburg). I am using a 1920 x 1080 display, Firefox 39 and vector skin under Windows XP - zooming in and out doesn't fix this overlap. But I can tweak those label coordinates myself, when the discussion is over (just curious: is the label display OK on your system?). GermanJoe (talk) 22:26, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

Looks like a big task. I don't think your present draft covers Germany as currently configured, or am I missing something? Is the idea to have a different template for each period in history when the lines move? Sounds like a bigger task, but from memory you'd need eventually different ones for 1792-1815, 1815/16-1864/66/70(?), 1870-1918, 1919-34ish, 1934ish-1945, 1945-1949/52, 1945-1989 and >1989. Or?

Colours are desperately personal. Every reader will react differently to your colour choices and then retrospectively try to figure out a reason why. For me a very strong red on a very strong blue is just very strongly "in your face", to the point where it will draw the eye away from other important stuff in the into para to the left and the info box/pictures above and below.

For big Laender the scale is fine. But those little quasi-Laender like HB and HH will disappear from view, once you have a screen the size of mine on my desk - or worse the size it comes out on the telephone, for people who think that's what a telephone is for .... A traditional cartographers' solution involves taking just a section of Germany - say an area extending to the south and west of Schleswig-Holsteain but not too far - and having a miniature version of "Germany" in an otherwise ignorable corner of it - in this case somewhere over Hannover/Magdeburg? - showing where your extract fits on the overall map of Germany. I wouldn't begin to be able to tell you how it's done. But I think I have seen it done in wikipedia- maybe with places in Alsace and a superimposed mini-map somewhere near Loerrach, showing where Alsace fits in with France.

Sorry to come to you without solutions, but at least there are a few thought triggers here that might lead somewhere usable, if you really do have the necessary combination of skills and 48 hour days available. Big job but a valuable one and thank you. Successs Charles01 (talk) 06:09, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

The zoom and coordinate positions are fine on my laptop (Windows 7 with 1366 x 768 display), my iPad (Air 2) and the computers that I use at the local library @GermanJoe:. And no, @Charles01:, the idea is to only have one map per "evolution" of the German nation (e.g. one for the states of the German Empire, one for the states of the Weimar Republic, etc.). And while your cartogrphy suggestions are great, I plan on keeping this map simple (then it also matches the identical map on the German Wikipedia). Nick Mitchell 98 (talk) 08:15, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

Have done some minor readjustments to improve label positions - atleast for my display :). Hopefully it works for other systems as well, if not we'll have to research a bit deeper. GermanJoe (talk) 10:41, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

Map is bad, simply put

Okay, the idea of using blue on a green map for the small city-states is just plain bad. It makes them look like bodies of water, not land. Frankly, I agree with every reason given to change the map in the above sections (color contrast, font choice, labels actually on the states, consistency with maps on historical states, flags over coats-of-arms), but the reason the map needs to be changed is that Berlin looks like a lake. It pretty universal in map making that blue represents bodies of water, especially contrasted with green land. So the choice of blue is particularly puzzling, and frankly wrong-headed in every way. oknazevad (talk) 13:30, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

WP:ACCESS issues are important and should be improved, no doubt. But we need to make sure to consider all viewpoints and find a solution for other valid concerns as well. The "lakes" don't really bother me but I see your point - maybe I simply got used to them over time. The background image for the map is at File:BundesRepublikDeutschland.png. I believe the map colors could be tweaked there, but as non-expert I am a bit hesitant to meddle with other editor's map uploads. Someone more experienced in map editing could probably change them in a few minutes. Suggestion for the other points: a formal RfC (too few people watchlist templates and comment here in my experience). GermanJoe (talk) 13:41, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

Maybe the simplest solution is to take the current text labels and put them on the tan map from the other version. Yes, it's a bit hard to see the small city-states, but, hey, they're small! oknazevad (talk) 13:53, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

Looking for a compromise, I'd prefer tweaking font and color scheme of the "old" map. The unclear display of the state borders is a mayor flaw of the new version. After all, displaying all German states as clearly as possible is the map's primary purpose. But let's wait for feedback from other editors. GermanJoe (talk) 16:43, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

Darken the borders a few shades? Just throwing that out there. But let's see what others say. oknazevad (talk) 16:50, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

I strongly support the current map, showing a green map and coats of arms. It is perfectly clear and has a pleasant look. I believe arms, as opposed to flags, is the most proper and conventional solution in the German context. - Ssolbergj (talk) 18:23, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

Then we need to change the blue city-states to green, and maybe darken the borders a bit. That Berlin looks like a lake is still problematic. oknazevad (talk) 18:54, 26 October 2015 (UTC)