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Template:Did you know nominations/Three Lives, Three Incarnations

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:30, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

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Three Lives, Three Incarnations edit

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Created by Kingoflettuce (talk). Self-nominated at 16:21, 4 December 2018 (UTC).

  • New hooks are needed as, according to Da Rules, hooks about works of fiction must involve the real world; i.e., they cannot be about plot points. Personally I am against that rule and wished it were abolished, but that's a discussion for another time. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 04:20, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
I can name several instances where "Da Rules" were not followed :( totally forgot about that silliness, but nevermind. How about ALT2: ... that both "Three Lives" and "Three Incarnations" were adapted into plays staged in China? Kingoflettuce (talk) 04:56, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
It could work if there was some context in the hook. Merely saying that they were adapted into plays into China isn't that interesting by itself I'm afraid. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 11:40, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

I took another look at the rules, which technically does not preclude the possibility of discussing plot points, only that the real world must (also) be involved. Therefore, I propose: "ALT3: ... that in both of the short stories "Three Lives" and "Three Incarnations", which were first published in Strange Tales from a Chinese Studio, a man is reborn as a dog that either kills itself or is killed by another dog?" Kingoflettuce (talk) 14:06, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

I'm afraid we probably have to give up on using plot points here as from experience the rule is rather strictly implemented (if not caught at DYKN, then usually at WT:DYK or ERRORS). Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 16:28, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
[1] [2] some examples to the contrary... However, I'm cool with not doing plot points, just that without them it would make more sense to have separate nominations instead. Could this still happen on this page? Kingoflettuce (talk) 05:10, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
Honestly I'm not sure. I'm going to leave a message at DYK and see what can be done here. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 23:05, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
Cheers Naruto - much appreciated. Ok,
  • ALT4: ... that the eighteenth-century Chinese short story "Three Lives" was adapted into a play featuring hip-hop and a live band? PROMOTED

Thanks Kingoflettuce (talk) 12:52, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the new hooks. As I'm rather busy right now I'll only have time to review Three Lives and will leave Three Incarnations for another reviewer, but personally I think Three Lives' hook is interesting, but Three Incarnations' is not so much. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 01:06, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
Would just like to inform @Narutolovehinata5: that QPQ for this actually hasn't been done (look at the DYK nom for Motivation crowding theory and its history you'll see that the user just put an arbitrary comment on the nom before a hook had been added, never added the ? to the nominator talk page, and has ignored it in the two weeks since a hook was added.) Kingsif (talk) 19:43, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
@Kingsif: Honestly whiffed on that one, my bad. In my defence the onus is on the nominator, I think, to have drummed up a proper nomination in the first place, or at least inform me when he/she/zer was done doing something so basic, rather than just leave it unsigned and undetected. You could have reminded me too -- I was obviously more than prepared and happy to do a full review after a hook was proposed -- rather than assume bad faith and swoop in to steal the jewel. I forgive you since it's Christmas, amen. Kingoflettuce (talk) 02:18, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
@Kingoflettuce: Sorry for assuming bad faith, I guess it really came from the lack of even enough effort to spell "what" with all four letters. That shouldn't be an influence, but in the moment it just made me think that you'd chosen a nom that could be very quickly dismissed to pseudo-review as QPQ. Kingsif (talk) 02:23, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
If you check against my many other reviews, you would (I hope) note that I have done a thorough job for them. I apologise that this particular QPQ fell thru the cracks (typos cant be helped tho), but in all seriousness thanks for filling in for me - I'd suppose it's more efficient than reminding me to complete the review. Have been quite tied up these few days Kingoflettuce (talk) 03:40, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
Absolutely np, great to be here helping wikipedia with other editors who care! Kingsif (talk) 01:16, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
  • As promised, I'm reviewing Three Lives right now. The article was nominated on the day it was created, the article is of an appropriate length, and it is adequately sourced. The hook is cited to an English language source and has been verified. Two QPQs have been accomplished, though as I'm only reviewing one article, only one counts for this case. The hook is interesting to a broad audience as well. Approving Three Lives; New reviewer requested for Three Incarnations (though personally I'm not a huge fan of that hook either). Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 02:46, 29 December 2018 (UTC)

Since there has been no response so far for Three Incarnations, I'm going to do a partial review. The article meets the newness, length, sourcing, and neutrality requirements. As the sources are offline, I'm accepting good faith for the article statements. I wasn't able to find any copyright violations, and a QPQ has been performed. My only concern is the hook itself: it seems to be narrowly focused and might not appeal to those unfamiliar with Chinese literature? Perhaps something else could be suggested here? I'm also requesting a second opinion by a different reviewer regarding hook interest. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 01:45, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

In an effort to get this moving, let's give "Three Incarnations" a tick on the grounds that it meets the criteria of newness, length, neutrality and policy. "Three Lives" has already been reviewed, and I think that the original hook, covering both articles, is both interesting and acceptable, involving as it does the real world as well as the plots. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 20:38, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
  • Hi, I came by to promote this. @Cwmhiraeth: the original hook says nothing about the real world, only the fact that he wrote the stories. I like the idea of splitting these up and am promoting ALT4 for now. ALT5 is available for a later promotion:
  • ALT5: ... that the Pu Songling short story "Three Incarnations" may have been influenced by Feng Menglong's writing? Yoninah (talk) 22:16, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
  • @Yoninah: Your choice, and I am quite happy with your course of action but I think you are completely misunderstanding the rule concerned. If the hook stated " ... that Xing Yutang and a certain government official were reborn as dogs?" it wouldn't involve the real world. But the hook is quite clear that we are talking about stories so that "... that in short stories by Pu Songling, the protagonists of both "Three Lives" and "Three Incarnations" are reborn as dogs?" is fine. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:13, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
  • I came by to promote the second hook, but now I see that neither of the 2 QPQs submitted was a full review. @Kingoflettuce: do you have a proper QPQ to submit for this nomination? Yoninah (talk) 00:41, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
  • @Yoninah: Sorry for the late reply - 'proper qpq' done (Chino Roque). Cheers Kingoflettuce (talk) 06:57, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
excellent, yoni. I like that Kingoflettuce (talk) 01:04, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
  • Thank you. But since I added an extra fact, ALT5a needs to be reviewed by someone else. Yoninah (talk) 21:44, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
  • Reviewing ALT5a. Length check 134. Editorial note: article has "inspired by" instead of "influenced by", but either should be fine. Looks good to go. Thanks, Zeete (talk) 14:15, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
  • Thanks, Zeete. I made the change in the hook. Yoninah (talk) 20:39, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
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