Wikipedia

Template:Did you know nominations/Staatstheater am Gärtnerplatz

< Template:Did you know nominations
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:31, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

DYK toolbox

Staatstheater am Gärtnerplatz edit

(
)
Gärtnerplatztheater in 2018
Gärtnerplatztheater in 2018

5x expanded by Gerda Arendt (talk). Self-nominated at 10:06, 3 August 2018 (UTC).

  • written neutrally, properly expanded, has referencing, QPQ done...ummm...I can't see anything about recent refurbishment in the article...and it'd be better to have dates of restoration than just "recently". How about a hook about some of the performances that have been there? Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:17, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
  • @Gerda Arendt: I agree with Casliber that the hook's interest is somewhat questionable, as old buildings being restored is not exactly quirky. How about a hook focusing on how it used to be a Nazi State Theatre (i.e. a hook about this sentence "The reopening of the only state operetta house in Germany on 20 November 1937 presented Die Fledermaus by Johann Strauss, with Adolf Hitler in the audience")? In addition, some sentences (such as "Eine Fahrt ins Blaue, a Lustspieloperette composed by Bernhard Stimmler..." and "The world premiere of Burkhard's Das Feuerwerk...") lack footnotes. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 07:16, 23 August 2018 (UTC)
It doesn't have to be quirky. I don't want to reduce a long history to Nazi only. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:12, 23 August 2018 (UTC)
@Gerda Arendt: When you write the hook, please make it "hooky", that is, short, punchy, catchy, and likely to draw the readers in to wanting to read the article. Shorter hooks are preferred to longer ones, as long as they don't misstate the article content. Unfortunately, I don't think the hook right now meets this criterion. Not all hooks need to be a concise summary of the whole article, if anything, hooks focusing on only one aspect are sometime encouraged, as long as it's interesting. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 08:24, 23 August 2018 (UTC)
Thank you for the education. What in "I don't want to reduce it to Nazi alone" did you not understand? In a bio, I won't mention only one negative aspect, even if catchy. (Actually I would mention no negative aspect.) - I will have time for this next week, Debussy's birthday is over, but Bernstein 25 and Vaughan Williams 26 still need work. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:28, 23 August 2018 (UTC)
If you don't like my Nazi theatre suggestion, Casliber above said that a possible alternate hook could involve some of the works that have been performed there. And what I meant when I quoted that rule was your comment "It doesn't have to be quirky", as the hook as it stands is quite bland (it focuses on the restoration part, which isn't exactly that hooky). In addition, the DYK rules don't prohibit negative hooks, unless BLPs are involved. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 08:40, 23 August 2018 (UTC)
Repeating: I will have time for this next week. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:46, 23 August 2018 (UTC)
"recently restored for several years" is not idiomatic - change to "recently restored over several years" or rephrase eg as "in restoration for several years", Johnbod (talk) 13:32, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
It has been a week when two more people tried whom I tried to get to recent death, on top of normal work. - The answer is yes, but today is another day with little time. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:12, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
  • Here is another suggestion:

ALT1: ... that the Staatstheater am Gärtnerplatz (pictured) in Munich, a royal theatre in the 19th century, became the only state operetta theatre in Germany when the Nazi regime cited operettas as particularly suited to connecting people with the theatre arts? Jmar67 (talk) 16:53, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't want to give so much prominence to Nazi ideology. Will look now - finally - at article and hook, sorry for the delay. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:09, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
Some refs and external links added. Combining performances, we could say:
ALT2: ... that the Staatstheater am Gärtnerplatz (pictured), built in Munich as a royal theatre for operettas, played Die lustige Witwe as a Nazi State Theatre, and for the reopening after five years of restoration in 2017?
Casliber, do you remember this was open? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:50, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
You need to add its staging in Nazi era to the article. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:06, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
Sorry, I knew but forgot. Done now. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:20, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
  • I'm sorry, but I don't really find the new hook interesting either. The hook being proposed right now goes along the likes of "a theater played opera X in the past and performed it again recently", which isn't really hooky to a broad audience (as it stands, the hook really only appeals to opera fans, but not necessarily general readers). A new hook needs to be proposed here. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 11:13, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
No hook is promoted right now. ALT2 was suggested. The house has a history of 150 years, and I think it should show a bit, hooky or not. Casliber is the reviewer. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:17, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
Yeah I'm sorry about that word, it was a typo that's now been fixed. As for the showing part, that's good to know, but that's what the article is for, a hook should instead emphasize something interesting, fascinating, or quirky about a subject. Yes the building may be 150 years old, but many opera houses are even older than that, so it's not really unusual in the grand scale of things. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 11:19, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
Can you please strike, rather than making my comment look silly ;) - Casliber is the reviewer. (How I love it, after more than 1000 DYK, to be told what a hook should do.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:40, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
DYKs can have more than one reviewer, though, particularly if consensus cannot initially be reached with one. With that said, I'm also interested in what Casliber thinks of ALT2. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 11:44, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
I thought it was interesting enough that it was performed in the nazi era and then now. Not earth-shattering but hooky enough to pique interest....happy to get more opinions without prejudice...Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:18, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
  • I've just struck the original hook because of the issues noted above. I should also point out that Die lustige Witwe is far better known (at least to the English-speaking public) as The Merry Widow, and any hook here using the English version would be more likely to get clicks than its title in German. (It would also be completely unsurprising that it's been performed in every era since its creation, given how popular it has been, so the interest cited by Cas Liber surely plummets.) I gather there was deliberate decision to avoid the link to Hitler (it is said here to have been his favorite operetta), and it is not clear from what it written in the article whether he actually saw that operetta at this theatre, though the source may (or may not) be more definitive in that regard. I would like to point out that the second-to-last paragraph, about musicals at the theatre and world premieres of operas, is completely uncited, and needs at least one citation per DYK rules. I do have one question for Gerda Arendt: was the theatre actually built as a royal theatre, or did it only become one in 1870 when the king bought it? The history talks about a committee for a Volkstheater, and that Ludwig "conceded a new building" (I'm not sure "conceded" is the correct word here), which would seem to indicate that he gave the building, not that it was his. If it didn't start as a royal theatre, then ALT2 is problematic. BlueMoonset (talk) 00:55, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
    Changed "conceded" to "authorized". Jmar67 (talk) 01:26, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
    ALT3: ... that the Staatstheater am Gärtnerplatz (pictured) in Munich was a royal theatre for operettas in the 19th century and a Nazi State Theatre from 1937?
    People can guess that it is still active from the image. I don't see the problem with the precise start of "Royal" because the century was long. We could also give the year of the label "Königlich" if it's a problem. Just waking up, no time yet for sourcing. Please keep in mind that I know nothing more about the theatre than I translated, and still have not been to it. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:47, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
    I referenced now a few musicals, and four of the operas missing a ref, dropping the other two. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:31, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
    ALT4: ... that the Staatstheater am Gärtnerplatz (pictured) in Munich, a royal theatre for operettas in the 19th century and a Nazi State Theatre from 1937, has later also presented musicals and world premieres of operas?
    Cas Liber, what do you think? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:54, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
I'll take ALT3 or ALT4 - maybe ALT3 slightly more. Happy to leave final choice to promoter. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 02:12, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
  • Hi, I came by to promote this, but I don't see any mention of "Nazi state theatre" in the article. It only discusses a "Bavarian state theatre". Please add something to the text. Yoninah (talk) 14:57, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
  • The text says "only state operetta house in Germany on 20 November 1937", which is too long for a hook. Suggestions welcome. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:02, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
  • Sorry, that seems saying to little about a house which was Royal and now is good for musical and opera premieres. I'd rather drop the Nazis altogether.
ALT6: ... that the Staatstheater am Gärtnerplatz (pictured) in Munich, a royal theatre for operettas in the 19th century, presented the German premiere of Harold Rome's musical Fanny in 1955?
which was a year after the Broadway premiere --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:25, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
  • OK. Hook ref verified and cited inline. Rest of review above. ALT6 good to go. Yoninah (talk) 20:51, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Did_you_know_nominations/Staatstheater_am_Gärtnerplatz&oldid=866095620"