Template:Did you know nominations/Süßer die Glocken nie klingen

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Amkgp (talk) 17:25, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

Friedrich Wilhelm Kritzinger (theologian)

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• ... that "Süßer die Glocken nie klingen" is a popular German Christmas carol, evoking bells as a symbol of peace and joy, which Friedrich Wilhelm Kritzinger wrote in the 19th century to the melody of an evening song? Source: several, even one in English

• Reviewed: Valentina (singer) (first article)
• Comment: Sorry. I wrote this - my grandfather's favourite - on his birthday, expanded later - but forgot to nominate, focused on Beethoven. I believe it would create a good mood also on 24 December 2020.

5x expanded by Gerda Arendt (talk). Self-nominated at 13:36, 16 December 2020 (UTC).

• It looks like the article was started on October 22. Yes, it would make a good hook for 24 December, but it is almost 2 months late. Yoninah (talk) 20:12, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

  Didn't I explain that it was started on my grandfather's birthday (22 Oct) and expanded (6 Dec) and it was almost ready then but I forgot to nominate (over Beethoven). We talk 3 days late. If we find that is a problem, I can write about the author who is known for this one song but he has a long name which leaves little room for peace and joy. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:22, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

• Yes, I read your comment, and I was eyeballing the expansion. Here is a more specific character count: Before expansion began on October 22 the character count was 530. As of the last edit on December 16 the character count is 1596. This is a 3x expansion. Yoninah (talk) 20:41, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

  You are right, and I'll think tomorrow. RL. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:13, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

  Update: I began the article on the poet, and - refs providing - will have him ready for DYK later today. Hope. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:34, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

Now that the poet's article looks more suitable:

• ALT2: ... that Friedrich Wilhelm Kritzinger wrote "Süßer die Glocken nie klingen", a popular 19th-century Christmas carol to the melody of an evening song, evoking the sound of bells as a symbol of peace and joy?--Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:29, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

• ALT2 is new enough, long enough, neutrally written, well referenced. As most sources are foreign-language, unable to check for close paraphrasing. However, the English-language source for the hook fact says nothing about evening song; it says it was based on a folk song, which in your article Süßer die Glocken nie klingen you linked to Volkslied, so I did that here too. I think Volkslied should be added to the hook, and the hook wording about evoking bells as a symbol of peace and joy needs to be added to this article, with a cite. QPQ done. Yoninah (talk) 00:47, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

  Thank you for the reminder! I made an extra little section about the song in the author's article, and placed the line in the lead. I think I may still add a bit to the song, time permitting, but hope it's enough for the formalities. If you want to listen, the soloist recording at the end of the SWR podcast - which also has bells sound from major churches around the world, beginning with Notre-Dame - is a much better choice than the Fischer Chöre in the English ref. It's still sad that their conductor just died, Gotthilf Fischer - he gave a lot of joy to masses of singers (hundreds and thousands, I mean). Not my kind of music-making but perhaps I should still give him an article. His name translates to "God, help". May he help me to more time ... --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:16, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

  I added "the sound of" to the hook, because they are imagined ringing and sounding ("klingen"), not just hanging. - Evening song, sorry, I keep forgetting that the title alone tells me that but of cause not to someone who doesn't read German. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:20, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

  "Süßer die Glocken nie klingen" is not direct a Volkslied. It is based on the melody of an older Volkslied. It is a Christmas carol Grimes2 (talk) 10:32, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

  We speak about the Abendlied that supplied the melody. By now, the other is also a Volkslied, meaning a song that many know by heart and will sing. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:14, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

• Gerda, do you really have to add evening song? Aside from the title, there's no source verifying this description. Can't we write:
• ALT2a: ... that Friedrich Wilhelm Kritzinger wrote "Süßer die Glocken nie klingen", a 19th-century Christmas carol to the melody of a popular Volkslied, evoking the sound of bells as a symbol of peace and joy? Yoninah (talk) 13:52, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

  Define "need". Volkslied evokes first of all a mood of marching and wander songs (with me at least), while this is soft and waltzing. In the author's article, a ref for Abendlied (= evening song) seems a bit undue weight, no? And what else could "Look how the sun is thinking there" be? Abendlied is only a summary of that line, in a way. - Well, I found a ref, will add, still think undue weight. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:29, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

• Thank you for the cite for evening song. OK, ALT2 is good to go. Yoninah (talk) 17:12, 19 December 2020 (UTC)