Template:Did you know nominations/Put Your Hand Inside the Puppet Head
- The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: rejected by — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:15, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
Referencing
Put Your Hand Inside the Puppet Head edit
- ... that the music video for They Might Be Giants' "Put Your Hand Inside the Puppet Head" was recorded in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, near filming for the movie Married to the Mob?
- ALT1:... that the They Might Be Giants song "Put Your Hand Inside the Puppet Head" was referenced in the third full-length episode of The Simpsons?
- Reviewed: Mahagujarat Movement
Created/expanded by BDD (talk), Boomur (talk). Nominated by BDD (talk) at 23:57, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
I think the original hook is better, but the facts for it are not given an inline source citation before the end of the sentences involved, as far as I can see. The Williamsburg info seems to come from the TMBG wiki (ref 6), although not credited as such, but that seems to be a fan wiki, which is not usually considered a reliable source. Direct from Brooklyn isn't even given as a source, much less identified as what it might be and its association with the group. As for ALT1, my problem with it is that the article doesn't make clear why this is a reference; the reader needs to know that this is almost a direct quote from the song's lyrics. (Also, how reliable is that Simpsons site being referenced in terms of editorial reliability? Is this truly a deliberate reference or just a happy coincidence?) Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 17:27, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
- Direct from Brooklyn is wikilinked; it is "a compilation of music videos by... They Might Be Giants." I understand your concerns about the reliability of TMBW; I tried to generally avoid using it as a source except when they reproduced old interviews or something. But I suppose for all we know they could have been modified. The Simpsons Archive seems to be well regarded, even if it is a fan site. The lyric in question is "Memo to myself: do the dumb things I gotta do" (verify), so there's a direct quote involved. --BDD (talk) 17:36, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
- I've made a few edits to the article, one of which is a "citation needed" tag—there needs to be a citation for Direct from Brooklyn as it's the source of information in the original hook, and DYK is inflexible about requiring inline sources for hook information. Once that's done, I'll call for a recheck by someone who has a better sense of whether things like printed interviews are acceptable from such wikis or not. If not, is the info available from either the video or the film? (Some of the Williamsburg and Married to the Mob info certainly is, but maybe a few details aren't, which could preclude them being in the hook. Maybe something like "with unused film from [nearby location shooting for] Married to the Mob? Not sure whether "location shooting" could be supported, which is why it's in brackets.) BlueMoonset (talk) 18:24, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
- i've added the citation for Direct from Brooklyn. i might be biased, as i am an editor on TMBW, but my opinion on using interviews from that wiki is that the links are merely for user convenience. regardless of where and whether or not it was reproduced online, the interview still exists (as a book or film exists regardless of whether or not it is easy to obtain in its original/non-digitised format). but i have no idea; i'm kinda new with wikipedia. ~ Boomur [talk] 20:08, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
- I've made a few edits to the article, one of which is a "citation needed" tag—there needs to be a citation for Direct from Brooklyn as it's the source of information in the original hook, and DYK is inflexible about requiring inline sources for hook information. Once that's done, I'll call for a recheck by someone who has a better sense of whether things like printed interviews are acceptable from such wikis or not. If not, is the info available from either the video or the film? (Some of the Williamsburg and Married to the Mob info certainly is, but maybe a few details aren't, which could preclude them being in the hook. Maybe something like "with unused film from [nearby location shooting for] Married to the Mob? Not sure whether "location shooting" could be supported, which is why it's in brackets.) BlueMoonset (talk) 18:24, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
- Direct from Brooklyn is wikilinked; it is "a compilation of music videos by... They Might Be Giants." I understand your concerns about the reliability of TMBW; I tried to generally avoid using it as a source except when they reproduced old interviews or something. But I suppose for all we know they could have been modified. The Simpsons Archive seems to be well regarded, even if it is a fan site. The lyric in question is "Memo to myself: do the dumb things I gotta do" (verify), so there's a direct quote involved. --BDD (talk) 17:36, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
Needs a re-review by a more experienced reviewer who can judge about the source issues, including whether the hook is adequately supported, or whether revisions to it are needed. BlueMoonset (talk) 17:13, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
- I pondered on this for a while. The fact that the official They Might Be Giants website has a very prominent link to the wiki gives it a fair amount of credibility, but at the end of the day, it is still a wiki. The main problem is that there is no real way of determining that the editor who created the page with the interview is not the same as the editor who created this article. WP:RS states that "open wikis.. are largely not acceptable". For the content itself, I might be willing to allow it, but given this is the supporting reference for the hook itself, I think we need to err on the side of caution. Similarly with The Simpsons Archive; it isn't actually that well regarded: see this from the Simpsons WikiProject, and this Featured article discussion. Harrias talk 08:11, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
The nominator was notified a week ago and has not responded. Given the review by Harrias, and that there has been no attempt to address the issues raised, I think it's time to close this submission. BlueMoonset (talk) 14:32, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
