- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:33, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
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Psalm 70 edit
Opening verse of Psalm 70 in the Book of Hours, Mainz, c. 1450
... that the beginning of Psalm 70, traditionally opening vespers (pictured in a 15th-century Book of Hours), was set in Monteverdi's Vespro della Beata Vergine as a quote from his opera L'Orfeo, a brillant "call to attention"?Source: [1]
- ALT1:
... that Psalm 70 is virtually identical to the end of Psalm 40?Yoninah (talk) 11:40, 31 March 2019 (UTC) - ALT2:
... that Matthew Henry learns from the virtual similarity between Psalm 70 and the closing verses of Psalm 40 that some prayers are worth repeating? - Reviewed: Let the Children March
- ALT1:
5x expanded by Yoninah (talk) and Gerda Arendt (talk). Nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk) at 11:33, 31 March 2019 (UTC).
Date and expansion fine. The original is a little boring so I think either ALT1 or ALT2 will be fine as both are sourced inline, my preference is for ALT2. QPQ done, no close paraphrasing. Picture licence fine. Good to go. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 09:09, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
- I suggest to leave ALT1 or ALT2 for Psalm 40. The opening of the uncomparable Vespers based on Psalm 70 is unique in music history, tremendously uplifting, and will be immediately recognized by everybody who heard the opera. Listen. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:09, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: but the first hook is too detail-heavy and hard to follow. Could you condense it somehow? Personally, I like ALT2. We're talking about the whole Psalm 70 as compared to a few lines in Psalm 40. I'm sure we can come up with a musical hook for Psalm 40. Yoninah (talk) 11:04, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
- Sigh, teach them less then. Don't teach them that it opens all vespers, nor that it is operatic:
- ALT3:
... that Monteverdi set the beginning of Psalm 70 (pictured in a Book of Hours) in his Vespro della Beata Vergine as a brillant "call to attention"? - Don't teach them that it opens all vespers, nor say brilliant:
- ALT4:
... that when Monteverdi set the beginning of Psalm 70 (pictured in a Book of Hours) in his Vespro della Beata Vergine, he used the opening from his opera L'Orfeo? - I don't know about Psalm 40, but I know that this is outstanding, and for Psalm 70, the beginning is recited much much much more than the rest in daily Hours. We can speak about a complete psalm for others. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:39, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
- But the first verse is the most important thing. How about:
- ALT3a:
... that Monteverdi set the beginning of Psalm 70 (pictured), traditionally opening vespers, in his Vespro della Beata Vergine as a brilliant "call to attention"?Yoninah (talk) 13:25, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
- works for me, thank you! Someone will demand Claudio Monteverdi be linked because he is now far from his work (goes for all later ALTS), someone will request to word that really only the beginning of the psalm is pictured, and someone will say that "vespers" / "vespro" is repetitive, which could perhaps be improved by placing the pictured after "vespers". --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:18, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
- OK, thanks. Here's the final alt:
- ALT3b: ... that Monteverdi set the beginning of Psalm 70, traditionally opening vespers (pictured), in his Vespro della Beata Vergine as a brilliant "call to attention"?
- Pinging @The C of E: for review of ALT3b. Yoninah (talk) 16:50, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
- As you wish. Personally I would have suggested use either ALT1 or 2 for this one and use the other for Psalm 40's nomination but the nominator's wishes will be respected. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 19:38, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
- Thank you for the respect. Just for curiosity: How could "the other" be used for Psalm 40 without a connection? Only ALT1 and ALT2 deal with Psalm 40. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:51, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: Simply run ALT1 for this and ALT2 for Psalm 40 or vice versa. Apologies if I hadn't worded it clearly in the original. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 12:40, 5 April 2019 (UTC)
- Gerda, I agree with The C of E that none of the hooks about vespers is going to garner as many hits as ALT2. As much as you'd like to "educate" readers about music, there's nothing wrong with reminding them about Henry either. (For my part, I would have liked to emphasize something Jewish, as the Psalms come from the Hebrew Bible. But I understand that all cultures have adopted them as their own.) Yoninah (talk) 21:15, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
- I suggest you do the nom for the next one. Sorry that this one is special for me. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:19, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
- Thank you for the respect. Just for curiosity: How could "the other" be used for Psalm 40 without a connection? Only ALT1 and ALT2 deal with Psalm 40. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:51, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: but the first hook is too detail-heavy and hard to follow. Could you condense it somehow? Personally, I like ALT2. We're talking about the whole Psalm 70 as compared to a few lines in Psalm 40. I'm sure we can come up with a musical hook for Psalm 40. Yoninah (talk) 11:04, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
- I suggest to leave ALT1 or ALT2 for Psalm 40. The opening of the uncomparable Vespers based on Psalm 70 is unique in music history, tremendously uplifting, and will be immediately recognized by everybody who heard the opera. Listen. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:09, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
