- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:03, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
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Nucleoid
... that a nucleoid is the bacterial way of keeping massively large DNA (1000-times larger than a bacterial cell itself) compact and well-organized?ALT1:... that a nucleoid is the bacterial way of keeping massively large DNA compact and well organized?
5x expanded by Vermasc (talk). Self-nominated at 19:00, 19 December 2019 (UTC).
- Hi Vermasc and welcome to Wikipedia. I regret to inform you that the pages at Nucleoid and Micropeptide are not eligible for DYK. Please consider reading the DYK rules again to understand the purpose of this project as it relates to newly created/expanded articles. Raymie (t • c) 19:31, 19 December 2019 (UTC)
- @Raymie: I believe that this DYK nomination is eligible under the 5x expansion criterion using content developed outside of article namespace. I can confirm that the content of this article was copied across from this page where it was initially written by Jogmiez and published under CC BY 4.0 as part of PLOS's 'Topic Pages' format to provide useful compatibly-licensed content for Wikipedia pages. Previous DYK examples in the format: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. T.Shafee(Evo&Evo)talk 00:08, 20 December 2019 (UTC)
- @Evolution and evolvability: My apologies! The incorrect title and some other issues with the plugin I used prevented me from catching this. I am fixing the nomination listing and reinstating it under 17 December. Raymie (t • c) 00:36, 20 December 2019 (UTC)
- @Raymie: No problem, sorry for the confusion caused! I'm happy to help out with any further things that come up. T.Shafee(Evo&Evo)talk 01:19, 20 December 2019 (UTC)
- @Evolution and evolvability: My apologies! The incorrect title and some other issues with the plugin I used prevented me from catching this. I am fixing the nomination listing and reinstating it under 17 December. Raymie (t • c) 00:36, 20 December 2019 (UTC)
- @Raymie: I believe that this DYK nomination is eligible under the 5x expansion criterion using content developed outside of article namespace. I can confirm that the content of this article was copied across from this page where it was initially written by Jogmiez and published under CC BY 4.0 as part of PLOS's 'Topic Pages' format to provide useful compatibly-licensed content for Wikipedia pages. Previous DYK examples in the format: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. T.Shafee(Evo&Evo)talk 00:08, 20 December 2019 (UTC)
- Hi Vermasc and welcome to Wikipedia. I regret to inform you that the pages at Nucleoid and Micropeptide are not eligible for DYK. Please consider reading the DYK rules again to understand the purpose of this project as it relates to newly created/expanded articles. Raymie (t • c) 19:31, 19 December 2019 (UTC)
Getting to my proper review. New enough and long enough. This would be the nominator's first DYK credit—indeed, they don't have any other activity on the account but are the lead author on the PLOS Genetics listing. @Vermasc and Evolution and evolvability:, which one is the hook source/location? The article is large enough—58,000 prose characters—that I'm not finding it. As to the hook itself, ALT1 is better suited for the DYK but it doesn't seem right. Is there a better hook to be had? Raymie (t • c) 07:03, 21 December 2019 (UTC)
- @Raymie: Although doi:10.1371/journal.pgen.1008456 could conceivably be the source reference, I think it's worth avoiding using it in this context, since it was also the source of the content. The appropriate reference for hook1=doi:10.1002/jcb.20519 and hook2=doi:10.1016/j.mib.2014.10.001. As for alternative hooks, are you thinking something snappier? Possible image might be cropped half of File:Subhash nucleoid 11.png. T.Shafee(Evo&Evo)talk 08:51, 21 December 2019 (UTC)
- @Evolution and evolvability: I'll AGF on those then since they are paywalled. It's more the phrasing. I might write it like this with the same source: would you approve? Raymie (t • c) 02:01, 22 December 2019 (UTC)
- ALT2:
that in bacteria, nucleoids keep massively large DNA compact and well organized?- Using the singular is probably more more accurate (ALT3), but otherwise looks good. T.Shafee(Evo&Evo)talk 08:39, 22 December 2019 (UTC)
- ALT3:
that in bacteria, a nucleoid keeps the large quantity of DNA compact and well organized?
- @Raymie: Although doi:10.1371/journal.pgen.1008456 could conceivably be the source reference, I think it's worth avoiding using it in this context, since it was also the source of the content. The appropriate reference for hook1=doi:10.1002/jcb.20519 and hook2=doi:10.1016/j.mib.2014.10.001. As for alternative hooks, are you thinking something snappier? Possible image might be cropped half of File:Subhash nucleoid 11.png. T.Shafee(Evo&Evo)talk 08:51, 21 December 2019 (UTC)
- My choice is for ALT3, per the nominator's scientific judgment, but another nominator should make the call. Thank you Evrik for the ping. Raymie (t • c) 22:56, 13 January 2020 (UTC)
- Which section or paragraph contains the information to verify the hook? Flibirigit (talk) 23:17, 10 February 2020 (UTC)
- Section #Background paragraph 1 (two refs at paragraph end) and section #Macrodomains paragraph 3 (ref at end of first sentence). T.Shafee(Evo&Evo)talk 10:18, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks. The article has been put together well and is very informative. I have a few small questions. The hook is verified, but the citation appears after a subsequent sentence. The citation must be at the end of the sentence which contains the hook. Sorry, that is a strict DYK rule. In the "Nucleoid-associated proteins (NAPs)" section, there are two whole paragraphs without a citation. Does [17] apply to the whole chart "Properties and the abundance of major nucleoid-associated proteins of E. coli"? There are several paragraphs which have citations within them, but also have multiple sentences at the end which do not appear to be cited. While this is not a DYK policy issue, I am unsure where the information came from. Flibirigit (talk) 17:30, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
- No problem - I'll go through later this week to check the references and move/copy to the relevant locations where they're effectively supporting multiple statements. I agree that the current ref placement (espec in the middle of paragraphs) isn't good practice for being able to work out the real provenance of the info. T.Shafee(Evo&Evo)talk 23:12, 16 February 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks for the update. I will keep an eye out for changes. Flibirigit (talk) 23:28, 16 February 2020 (UTC)
- I've read through the relevant references in order to check which are supporting single statements and which apply to the whole paragraph. Where I couldn't find what was originally intended, I've done a bit of literature searching to find an alternative. Let me know if you find any major holes! T.Shafee(Evo&Evo)talk 10:13, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
- @Evolution and evolvability: Thanks for the updates to citations, everything is now properly sourced. As for the hooks ALT2 and ALT3, both are factually correct. I cannot find a sentence that combines "nucleoid", "compact DNA" and "well organized" into a single sentence. Sorry, have I missed it somewhere? Flibirigit (talk) 22:15, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
- The closest match appears to be in the third sentence of the first paragraph in the "Background" section, but I don't see a citation directly at the end of that sentence. Please let me know if I missed it somewhere else. Everything else looks good to go. Flibirigit (talk) 22:18, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
- @Flibirigit: Apologies for the delay again, and thanks for your patience and reminders on this. You're correct that that sentence was lacking a source. I've checked the one that was supporting the more specific sentences that follow and that is an appropriate source, so have reused earlier in the paragraph. T.Shafee(Evo&Evo)talk 11:26, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
- Sorry, I am still struggling to find where the hook is mentioned in the article. Specifically, I cannot find a sentence that combines "nucleoid", "compact DNA" and "well organized" into a single sentence. Sorry, have I missed it somewhere? Flibirigit (talk) 15:26, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
- @Flibirigit: Apologies for the delay again, and thanks for your patience and reminders on this. You're correct that that sentence was lacking a source. I've checked the one that was supporting the more specific sentences that follow and that is an appropriate source, so have reused earlier in the paragraph. T.Shafee(Evo&Evo)talk 11:26, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
- The closest match appears to be in the third sentence of the first paragraph in the "Background" section, but I don't see a citation directly at the end of that sentence. Please let me know if I missed it somewhere else. Everything else looks good to go. Flibirigit (talk) 22:18, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
- @Flibirigit and Evolution and evolvability: Are we talking about a single bacterium here which contains one instance of a form called a nucleoid? If so, as phrased, ALT2 and ALT3 seem confusing. Would this be clearer and still accurate? Mary Mark Ockerbloom (talk)
- ALT4: ... that in a bacterium, the nucleoid keeps the large quantity of DNA compact and well organized?
- The sentence noted would seem to apply, but I have made 2 minor changes and added an appropriate citation immediately following. I have chsnged "condensed" to "compact" and added "the" before "nucleoid", resulting in:
"The chromosomal DNA is present in cells in a highly compact, organized form called the nucleoid (meaning nucleus-like), which is not encased by a nuclear membrane as in eukaryotic cells."
- Neither of the citations at the end of the paragraph seemed to directly state this, but I found and added a citation which does. It states:
"Chromosomal organization and compaction result in a discrete, albeit dynamic, coiled structure whose shape depends on the geometry of the cell... This compacted DNA structure is called the nucleoid."
Thank you for the changes. The newest hook is properly cited, mentioned inline, and verified by the source. Nomination adheres to all other DYK criteria. ALT4 is approved. Flibirigit (talk) 17:54, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
